The Business of Inclusion: Lisa Mulligan on Building a Culture of Diversity

Debra Coleman [00:00:10]:
Well, hello, you, and welcome

Lisa Mulligan [00:00:12]:
back to another episode of Have A Seat Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. I am your host, Deb Coleman. Friends, oh, I am thrilled for today's episode because I have the absolute pleasure of sitting down with someone who's anything but your average corporate check. You you heard that right. Lisa Mulligan is my guest today. She is the CEO and founder of the Culture Ministry whose sole mission is to play an influential role in helping to create organizations where people can flourish and contribute. You see Lisa's team at the culture ministry is believes in developing and supporting the best diversity and inclusion community. So organizations, DE and I officers, as well as HR leaders can confidently and capably lead the change required.

Lisa Mulligan [00:01:05]:
You see Lisa's team believes in supporting those who are tasked with supporting us and their organizations diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging efforts. Really, really affirming and positive and needle moving work. Work. But again, Lisa is not your corporate chick. From shunning suits to rocking pink hair and declaring sequins as a neutral, Lisa's journey in the corporate world is nothing short of extraordinary. You see with over 20 years of experience in global businesses spanning various industries, she has seen it all and then some in the diversity of equity and inclusion space. So buckle up friends and get ready for an epic conversation as Lisa shares her insights, experiences, and definitely a few unconventional pearls of wisdom about the DEI and V space. I truly appreciate it, Lisa, going there with me a little bit.

Lisa Mulligan [00:02:03]:
Getting getting breaking things down a little bit and getting a little candid. So that is a wonderful, wonderful segment of our conversation to turn into. Trust me, if you are in any way in the DEIN b space or support those who are, this is absolutely an episode for you. Great information. Great knowledge draw from my guest, Lisa Mulligan. So without further ado, here's my conversation with the CEO and founder of the Culture Ministry, miss Lisa Mulligan.

Debra Coleman [00:02:34]:
Well, welcome back to another episode of Have A Seat, conversations with women in the workplace. And joining me this week, so exciting to bring to you or to introduce you to the CEO of the Culture Ministry, miss Lisa Mulligan. Lisa, thank you so much for having a seat with me this afternoon and this morning for you.

Lisa Mulligan [00:02:56]:
My goodness. Thank you so much, Deb. It is a delight to be on your podcast, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Debra Coleman [00:03:05]:
Me too. Me so much because, you know, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And then I've also heard of adding another letter to that, which is b for belonging. Yes. Is that okay? Maybe you can school us on that a little bit. I I love that. I didn't know, but that is wonderful. Seems to be at just the top of mind right now.

Debra Coleman [00:03:25]:
I mean, my goodness. Since 2020, it has just taken off like a rocket. I know it's been around for a lot longer than that, but it just seems like everyone sort of woke up to it after Yep. 2020. So when I have experts like you on the show to help clarify and to help maybe bring it back to center a little bit for all of us, it's really a treat. So thank you so much. I look forward to it too.

Lisa Mulligan [00:03:50]:
Yeah. Awesome. Oh,

Debra Coleman [00:03:53]:
well, okay. Let's get into it a little bit. I first of all, I have to say, I know I'm not an a a video podcast, but I wish I was because I love that you just as your bio says, you are not your average corporate chick. I absolutely love that description.

Lisa Mulligan [00:04:12]:
First of

Debra Coleman [00:04:12]:
all, I read that sentence and I was like, sold. How can I get her on my show? I wanna get her on my show. Oh my gosh. She says, yes. That was beautiful. I I love I love that whole the whole description, and that you own it, and you walk your walk, and you speak your truth, that you are intolerant of bullshit, as you say, but you believe in a sense of fair play. And I I just I really appreciate that and celebrate that for you. But, your career path absolutely has involved some unconventional twists and turns of its own.

Debra Coleman [00:04:42]:
You, you know, you challenge leaders, and you champion diversity and inclusion. So what brought you though to the land of DEINB and to start and to find and to found the Culture Ministry?

Lisa Mulligan [00:04:57]:
Yeah. It looks such a good question. And I think different people come to this work in different ways, and it's always interesting to learn how people come to this work. I think for me, I certainly grew up in a family where fairness was a huge value. But it really came to life for me when I entered the workforce. And I I started working in retail jobs because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up, essentially. But, you know, when I was working in those retail jobs, I got really interested about how companies manage their people, and that really launched me into a career in human resources. So most of my career has been in human resources, organizational development, change management.

Lisa Mulligan [00:05:47]:
And diversity and inclusion and equity and belonging, all of those things, you know, came as part of that work. And I found myself pretty much always working for male dominated industrial type businesses. So the kinds of businesses that were typically where men would go and work. And I was often the only woman in the room at the table, and that was great. I enjoyed working there. I I can't say I had too many terrible experiences, but I was always like, where are all the women? What's going on? And and as I progressed in my career, it was like I've started to realize not just where are all the women, but where are all the people who are not white? And that became very evident to me. I've I've been very lucky in my career to live and work overseas. I lived for 8 years in Asia based out of Singapore.

Lisa Mulligan [00:06:51]:
I did a short stint in the UK. And sometimes in those businesses in countries where they're not full of white people, there were still white people leading the main parts of the business. So, you know, it's really been a journey for me of realizing that our workplaces and particularly large multinational organizations sometimes are not very inclusive. And, you know, later in my corporate career, I I applied for and I was successful in being the head of diversity and inclusion for a global engineering company. And, yeah, it was my first time in a full time role really being able to think about, okay, how do we fix this, and and what are the things that we need to do to fix it. So, yeah, that's that's kinda how I ended up there. I think I always had the value around this work, and I think that underlying value of fairness that started as a very young person has, you know, really helped me in this work.

Debra Coleman [00:08:03]:
So I'm getting a sense of real curiosity from you, you know, because you and we're asking this question. Why? Why this? Where is this? Who who's running the show here? Why do they look that way? Why Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Mulligan [00:08:15]:
Definitely.

Debra Coleman [00:08:17]:
I love that. That curiosity led you to to seek these answers. And it sounds like when maybe the answers weren't provided or maybe weren't provided adequately enough, you said, you know what? You roll up your sleeves. I think I can get to the bottom of this. Or I think I can help help us get to the bottom of this. And lo and behold, Lisa Mulligan emerged. Here we are. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:08:41]:
That is so great. You know, and I really appreciate you saying that too about noticing, because I think and correct me if I'm wrong, I am certainly not Lisa on this subject at all, though I wish I was. Though I can only speak from my lived experience as a biracial woman. And out there in corporate America, as you so beautifully put, you're right. A lot of my leadership teams that I've been a part of or served under don't look anything like me. Yeah. And it it it really you know, unless you are aware, like, your third eye obviously is open. But unless you actually live that life or walk in those shoes, you don't really maybe notice that or how it might affect those that don't see representation where they were.

Debra Coleman [00:09:24]:
Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Mulligan [00:09:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Do you know, I I worked for 12 months on a project in India in a city called Hyderabad, which was a fascinating experience, I think. And I I had a moment where we we worked on-site at, a software company that we were partnering with, And we had to do an emergency evacuation, like, all the alarms went off. And so everyone had to go outside and and wait for the building to be cleared. And it was probably the first time that I had experienced being a minority because I was standing outside in the heat and the humidity surrounded by mainly Indian men. And it was it was a surreal experience, and it was something that really struck me as important to remember that feeling of being the only one that was different to the the majority group. And it's often the other way for me.

Lisa Mulligan [00:10:37]:
Often you know, I'm a white Australian woman. I'm often in the majority in the rooms that I'm in. And, you know, that was a, I think, a bit of a turning point for me about, okay, how can I work more in spaces where I'm the minority, but I'm still privileged? But I'm the minority, and what does that feel like? And how can I use that feeling to guide this work?

Debra Coleman [00:11:03]:
Wow. Very profound experience. Yeah. Not many people have that experience. Exactly.

Lisa Mulligan [00:11:10]:
Yeah. No. Mm-mm.

Debra Coleman [00:11:12]:
And so is that where the culture ministry seed started to be planted and those after experiencing things like that in your own journey?

Lisa Mulligan [00:11:22]:
I think it definitely informed the idea starting of the business were around this notion that I I don't know how we learn this, but we somehow get to learn that a secure job is with a big company. And we should we should, as humans, you know, strive for the safety, security of working for a big company. But the reality and I've learned this at various times through my career. So working in HR roles, I have been involved in many redundancies and layoffs, over my career that I have been managing myself. And then I have experienced redundancies and not had a job. And the last time I experienced a redundancy, I'd actually moved my whole family from Singapore to the UK, and 2 months later, didn't have a job. Oh. And it was the biggest wake up call.

Lisa Mulligan [00:12:33]:
I mean, I knew in my heart that that there's no security in life. But but that one in particular, you know, I had this thing in my head that I'm I'm not gonna be held by another person or another company for my livelihood and my family's livelihood. And that it took me 5 years from that point to well, actually, maybe a little bit longer, but to start my own business. But it I had started putting the building blocks in place. Like, I I wanna be in control of my own destiny, and so I started putting the building blocks in place. And something you said at the start, from 2020 onwards, this topic of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging has accelerated, and that's because of a number of things. You know, the murder of a black man that captured the world's attention, so George Floyd's death, but also the pandemic. And all of these things have accelerated this work.

Lisa Mulligan [00:13:38]:
And for me, it was a coming together of things. Like, I wanna start my own business. I wanna be in control of my destiny. I have this value around fairness, and and then we've got this thing that's happened in the world that's raised the profile of this work. And so for me, it was almost a no brainer. It was like, okay, this is this is the thing. Yeah. So from probably definitely from 2020 onwards, I was making steps to be able to to start my own business.

Debra Coleman [00:14:13]:
So admirable. Absolutely. I I know many women who have similar, desires or similar goals because, absolutely, I think yeah. It it's, you know, it's not fair to lay everything at 20 twenty's feet, but I think that was very, like

Lisa Mulligan [00:14:28]:
It was a catalyst. Right?

Debra Coleman [00:14:30]:
Yes. Yes. Thank you. Good word. Yeah. Absolutely. But thank you for also sharing that it took you a while. It wasn't just a light switch.

Debra Coleman [00:14:39]:
You know? As you said, it took several years to really get things going and to turn, you know, turn the culture ministry into what it is. So thank you for that too. Because I think a a lot of women who have dreams of being their own business owner, you know, may they may hear, like, oh, it could take some time. But when you hear someone else actually say that too, it can mean a lot. A little Yeah. A little bit of wake up call there. Yeah. Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:15:02]:
So so the culture ministry, I I now do you is the was this formed to support organizations in their DEI and b efforts, and or does it support those who are

Lisa Mulligan [00:15:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a bit of both. I'm part of my HR career over the years, I've learned that I'm very good at getting things started. So coming into an organization where they may not have good policies, procedures, and structures in place to manage their people. So I can I definitely apply that to DNI work? So often organizations will come to me and say, we're doing a bit of something over here, and we've done this thing over here. But we don't really know what we're doing, and we don't really know we we should be focusing. So I love working with those organizations, but I also do work with more established organizations who have very particular needs and perhaps can't meet those needs through a very large consulting business, and and they need a more boutique tailored approach.

Lisa Mulligan [00:16:27]:
And so I I work in those spaces as well.

Debra Coleman [00:16:32]:
Oh, I love it. That's fantastic. What good work, what affirming work, and very pay it forward work. Yes. I I I, myself, I'm in higher education, and so I often say, you know, my our product isn't a widget. It's actually helping others, you know, better themselves and and meet their lifetime goals or whatever. So I love that your mission is something, like, you know, intangible, but something that is affirming and positive and hopefully needle moving for many. Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:17:03]:
That's great. What a wonderful way to what reason and wonderful organization to have started.

Lisa Mulligan [00:17:10]:
Thank you.

Debra Coleman [00:17:12]:
So is it possible then for organizations I know, you know, as an individual contributor, we hear that so often. Like, we wanna up our DEI efforts, and we wanna be there for you and really make you feel like you're a part of something. And do you believe organizations can effectively cultivate environments where diversity can thrive?

Lisa Mulligan [00:17:33]:
I think they can. K. But the challenge is in some organizations, I think there's a bit of a tick box approach. So we need to be seen to be doing something. So let's just run some training. Let's do some unconscious bias training. Let's run something on inclusive leadership with our executive team, which is great. They are these are all great building blocks of creating an inclusive culture.

Lisa Mulligan [00:18:07]:
But changing culture in in organizations is a long term effort, and I often I often talk to organizations about how culture change takes time. And the example I use is creating a safety culture. So when I said at the start that I have worked for male dominated industrial businesses, I could have also added, you know, dangerous businesses. So there was one business I worked in, over 20 years ago now, and every month, we would have a fatality on one of our sites. Someone would die on one of our sites. It was awful. It was it was so awful. You know, 20 years later, we we don't we don't kill people at work every month, usually.

Lisa Mulligan [00:19:04]:
We don't have the level of accidents that we used to have 20 years ago. And it's because organizations have focused on how do we build a safety culture, how do we build into the way that we do business, practices that mean we will always have, a safe workplace for our people? But it's taken that long. And there was there's a number of things that went into creating that safety culture. They measured they measured accidents. They measured fatalities. They measured near misses, and they fed that information back into a system to work out how can we solve that problem. They got leaders on board. They trained leaders in leading safety.

Lisa Mulligan [00:19:50]:
They trained staff. They continually nudged safety messages in the businesses. In many meetings, you would always start talking about safety and what was happening with safety. And there was more that happened. And so I use that analogy with building inclusion and belonging in organizations. If you just do one thing, if you just think training's gonna be the answer, well, it's not. It's part of the overall solution. And I think once we start to get organizations thinking about what are all the things that we need to be doing, At the same time, often, which is challenging.

Lisa Mulligan [00:20:33]:
Right? Then we'll start to see the shift. And we do have organizations out there who are doing that and and are making progress, but we still have some organizations that, are kidding themselves a bit that just doing one thing this year is gonna shift the dial. It just doesn't. It's like going to the gym once and lifting some weights and then never going back. Like, nothing

Debra Coleman [00:20:57]:
changes. Why aren't I buff and then muscular? I get that.

Lisa Mulligan [00:21:03]:
I always hope for that to happen when I go to the gym once a month.

Debra Coleman [00:21:08]:
Hey, listen. If that's all it took, I'd sign me up today. Done and done. Oh my gosh. You're right though. Very well put. You know, just because you maybe produce a newsletter that goes out once a month or now I'm gonna go there a little bit, but I'm feel I feel like I'm in a safe space. I can say I can say this with you.

Debra Coleman [00:21:28]:
Or you've checked off that DEI box by hiring a non white DEI officer Yes. Doesn't exactly mean you can now say, okay, Lisa. We're good. Thank you. You know? No. No. So talk to us about that. Like, it does it takes, you know right? I mean, there's more there.

Debra Coleman [00:21:50]:
Because diversity inclusion means so much. Like, it's it's it's not just race, but it's, like, age and as you said in the beginning, gender and, ableism and, you know, I mean, die you know, neurodiverse. And, I mean, there's a lot, right, that's wrapped up in that for those who, you know, for those of us who may need to be educated a little bit on that.

Lisa Mulligan [00:22:07]:
Yeah. I think I think it's a really interesting debate as to whether you should have someone with lived experience in the diversity, inclusion, equity, belonging space. So, you know, it's it's great to appoint someone into a DNI role who is non white or comes from a minority group, and there's a whole range of those. Mhmm. So that's great, and the optics are great. I've actually had a leader say to me, you know, when we recruit our head of DNI for North America, they need to be black. And I'm like, what? See? Like, what? But, you know, we in that example, we did recruit a black woman. She was fabulous, but she was set up to fail because she needed support to do the job.

Lisa Mulligan [00:23:12]:
She was very smart. It's it wasn't that. It was like, you need leaders on board. You need budget. You need time and space in management meetings. Like, there was a whole range of things. And so, yes, having some lived experience in the space is a great thing. But what else do you need? So you need to know how to navigate big organizations.

Lisa Mulligan [00:23:35]:
You need to know how to communicate to different stakeholders across a business. You need to know which levers to pull to make change happen. You need to be able to build relationships with stakeholders and influence. And I think just recruiting someone for the optics is a really bad idea. If you can recruit for the optics maybe but still have some of those skills, then they're gonna be have a much better chance of being successful. I often think we should have more white heterosexual men leading DNI because I reckon they could get more stuff done. Only because, you know, they have those other relationships with the white men who are in power, and, like, maybe you could get stuff done. I don't know.

Lisa Mulligan [00:24:24]:
That's controversial. But

Debra Coleman [00:24:26]:
I love it, though. Lisa Culligan, be strategic. I love it. Yeah.

Lisa Mulligan [00:24:31]:
I just think we we set we set so many people up to fail. And, I've had a number of DNI leaders on my podcast, black women who in the US, who are incredibly smart, talented women, and they're being set up to fail. And and that's not fair.

Debra Coleman [00:24:54]:
So Yeah.

Lisa Mulligan [00:24:55]:
Yeah. What what do you think about that? What do you think about people appoint you know, leaders being appointed for the optics?

Debra Coleman [00:25:02]:
I agree with you. I I think that it's it's a little on one hand, when it started again, when the DEI officer talk was started and really ramping up and you saw a lot of those job postings and all those positions being filled. And as you said, they were being filled by, you know, women of color. Yeah. You know? And and I love that.

Lisa Mulligan [00:25:23]:
Which is great. Which is great.

Debra Coleman [00:25:25]:
Yes. Because on the outside, it looking in, it's like, great. They have seat at the table. They're a part of the c suite in some way. They're a leader. But then as you pointed out, the other side of the coin is, where's the support, though? Is it just in name only? And that's that's what it was like to me, it was sort of like the deflating a balloon a little bit. Like, oh, bummer.

Lisa Mulligan [00:25:48]:
Yeah. Yep. I agree.

Debra Coleman [00:25:51]:
But isn't that where work where the culture ministry can come in and fill that gap? They can say, okay. Yes. You've got this officer or yes, officer, we see you. Here are some resources to help you communicate better to your organization on what you need to be successful or and organizations. Here's what you need to in order to help this officer be successful in their role for the betterment of your organization.

Lisa Mulligan [00:26:13]:
Yeah. I actually have a course exactly for that purpose. Tell us about it. Tell us about it. It's it's called 6 weeks to get started in diversity and inclusion. And I don't teach the the domain knowledge of DEI. I don't I don't talk about, you know, how do you how do you build more diversity in ethnicity or how do you support the LGBTIQ plus community? I don't talk about that. I talk about how do you get the job done? How do you work out where to focus your DNI work? You know, what's the data you need to collect? What do you need to understand about your organization, where it sits in the market, and what it's trying to achieve? Where where is your business trying to make a difference in the world, and how can you link a DNI strategy to that? I talk about how to get really focused, how to create a good plan, how to measure the right things, how to report on those measurements, how to how to communicate, how to have a proper communication plan that meets all the stakeholders across your organization.

Lisa Mulligan [00:27:29]:
These are the things that DNI leaders need. They will often bring lived experience, whether it's from being a woman, a black woman, a gay man, you know, someone from a minority ethnic group. What you know, someone with a disability, people will often bring some of that, which informs the work. But if you can't do the other stuff, if you can't navigate the organization, then you're not gonna be successful. So my course focuses on that stuff. So you're right. So if you're in a head of DNI role, and you need that support, you need to work out how can I influence the CEO? How can I get in their ear? How can I get their support? That's the stuff I work

Debra Coleman [00:28:12]:
on. Oh, I love it. To me, that's where the nitty gritty that's where the rubber meets the

Lisa Mulligan [00:28:16]:
right there. Yes. Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:28:20]:
I love it. Oh, well, if there are listeners who are just just like, Lisa, I'm with you. I would love to learn more. Where can people find you and get in touch with you to learn more about your work?

Lisa Mulligan [00:28:30]:
Yeah. Thank you. So I'm very active on LinkedIn. So you can find me under Lisa Mulligan. I also have a business page on LinkedIn, which is the Culture Ministry. And you can also go to my website, which is www.thecultureministry.com.

Debra Coleman [00:28:49]:
Fantastic. And it's such a lovely site too, by the way, everybody. Just visit it. Thank you.

Lisa Mulligan [00:28:54]:
So that website was something I put together before I left my corporate job. So when I was saying, you know, I did lots of steps before leaving a full time job, that was one of them.

Debra Coleman [00:29:06]:
Wow. I'm gonna have to have you back on to talk to us about it as a female business owner and some of the challenges and, roller coaster rides you've encountered since starting your own business.

Lisa Mulligan [00:29:16]:
Oh, I'd love that. I'd love that.

Debra Coleman [00:29:18]:
I know. I do. That would be amazing. Especially in something as niche as DE and I work. I mean, that's amazing. You know? Yeah. So fantastic. I love this conversation.

Debra Coleman [00:29:28]:
Oh my goodness. I I have more questions. I have more questions before we let you out of the world. But I sure have time to and I think it's because you have such a very warm and welcoming, demeanor, Lisa. You were just making you just making

Lisa Mulligan [00:29:41]:
Oh, thank you.

Debra Coleman [00:29:41]:
Yes. Absolutely. Thank you. Oh, no worries. So before, though, I let you hop because I know we're getting close to time, do you have time for one more silly bonus question?

Lisa Mulligan [00:29:52]:
Oh, I can't wait for the silly bonus question.

Debra Coleman [00:29:56]:
I figured it's right up your alley. Now I'm speaking your language, you know. Yes. Yes. Oh, I love it. Oh, okay. So, miss Lisa, as we have clearly learned about you, you are doing amazing work, needle moving work, and which is keeping you busy. You have a company to uphold, plus your personal life, a lot going on.

Debra Coleman [00:30:16]:
When things get crazy, what do you do to reset and rebalance? What helps bring Lisa back to center again so she can continue living her best life?

Lisa Mulligan [00:30:29]:
I think there's 2 things. The first is being in nature, and that was something I learned. That was really important during COVID and the various lockdowns to to get out in greenery. And I will often take my family out on the weekend and torture them by making them walk somewhere in, New Zealand's beautiful, natural landscapes. And, the second thing is I'm a sewer, so I love making clothes. Yeah. And I'm I'm feeling a bit despondent at the moment because I got my machine out 2 weeks ago on the weekend to make some things, and it's a very old machine. It's my grandmother's, and the foot pedal completely fell apart.

Lisa Mulligan [00:31:16]:
I had to order a new one. It still hasn't come. So I'm feeling a bit a little bit anxious because I can't I can't sew at the moment.

Debra Coleman [00:31:23]:
Oh, no. Come on, dental. Get there.

Lisa Mulligan [00:31:26]:
I know. Come on, Ebay. Yeah. Bring it in. Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:31:33]:
Oh, I love do you make clothing for your children or for your family? Or do you anything specific?

Lisa Mulligan [00:31:40]:
I no. Actually, no. Just make for me. Isn't that it's my thick. That's that sounds really selfish, but, no, I just make clothes for me.

Debra Coleman [00:31:50]:
No. It doesn't at all. Why not? You're doing all the work, so you should reap the benefits. Of course.

Lisa Mulligan [00:31:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Debra Coleman [00:31:55]:
So do you find when you're when you're sewing that you just sort of get into a zone, like when the machine is on and you're creating and you're handling that material? Okay. Mhmm.

Lisa Mulligan [00:32:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Completely in flow. And if people come and interrupt me, it is incredibly frustrating.

Debra Coleman [00:32:11]:
Uh-oh. Yeah. Yep. We need a sign. Mom sewing in progress. Keep walking. Yeah.

Lisa Mulligan [00:32:19]:
Yep. Yep. Keep away.

Debra Coleman [00:32:21]:
Yeah. Unless you're bleeding, do not knock. I don't want air it.

Lisa Mulligan [00:32:24]:
Yeah. And even if you're bleeding, just go sit in the bathroom. It'll be fine.

Debra Coleman [00:32:30]:
Exactly. Oh, speaking like a talking like a true mom. Done.

Lisa Mulligan [00:32:33]:
Oh my god.

Debra Coleman [00:32:34]:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh, Well, I love the walk in nature too, though. I I really admire that. I think that there's something innate in all of us that we just need to keep that in touch. You know, it kinda helps keep us grounded. So love that idea as well. And even though your kids may go kicking and screaming, I'm sure on some level, they do appreciate it.

Debra Coleman [00:32:54]:
So well, Lisa, this has just been amazing conversation as I knew it would be. And might I say, we are selfishly glad that you pivoted into doing this work because now you have you are providing this wonderful service to the rest that the rest of us can enjoy and learn from. So thank you so much for your work in the culture ministry.

Lisa Mulligan [00:33:14]:
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Deb. It has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you.

Debra Coleman [00:33:21]:
Well, that wraps up my amazing conversation with the delightful and on point and brave miss Lisa Mulligan. Thank you for tuning in to listen to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed our chat as much as I did. Lisa's knowledge, her energy and insights on the DEI and B space were truly infectious, and I feel a bit inspired to help shake things up and support the DEI and the efforts in my own organization after hearing her story and learning more about what it means to support those who are doing this amazing work. Remember though, the conversation doesn't end there. If this landed or resonated with you, be sure to check out the show notes for ways to connect with Lisa and dive deeper into the topics we discussed today. There is so much more to learn about the DE and I DEINV space that I feel like the phrase continual learner in that in that area absolutely applies. So check out the show notes on ways to connect with Lisa and to learn more about the culture ministry as well as Lisa's podcast.

Debra Coleman [00:34:31]:
I'm so excited that she has a podcast called A Dog Name Diversity. So very excited to share so many resources with you through Lisa and her incredible culture ministry work. So again, that podcast is called A Dog Called Diversity, and there will be a link to that in the show notes as well. As always, there is also a link to check out the Have A Seat website where you will where you will find more amazing conversations just like the one I have with Lisa. So until next time, my friend. Let's keep shining bright and breaking down barriers in our own workplaces. And as always, stay safe, be well, and remember, keep having those conversations.