Breaking Barriers: Empowering Women in Skilled Trades with Hacia Atherton

Debra Coleman [00:00:09]:
Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Have A Seat, Conversations With Women in the Workplace by podcast. I am your tongue tied host, Deb Coleman. I am very excited to welcome you to this show today. My guest is one of the reasons why I started this podcast in the first page in the first place. Oh my gosh. I told you I was tongue tied. The work that my guest does absolutely speaks to women empowerment and moving that needle for us in the workplace. Friends, please let me do the honor of introducing you to miss Hacia Atherton.

Debra Coleman [00:00:43]:
She is the founder of an organization called Empowered Women in Trades, which is a charity established in 2020 to increase female representation in skilled trades in Australia through work experience, educational training, and ongoing support. Hot hey, Hacia. Excuse me. I told you I was tongue tied today. Is a is, of course, on a mission to break down barriers and create meaningful economic opportunities for women in the trades. So in our inspiring conversation, Hacia shares her journey of overcoming adversity and her passion for gender equality. We dive deep, friends, into the challenges faced by trades women and the importance of creating psychological safety and social bonding in male dominated fields. And let me tell you, the advice that Hacia has for male leaders in these male dominated industries is so spot on.

Debra Coleman [00:01:43]:
I wish I could just, like, fly a banner across the world with these words on it. You do not want to miss her advice for male leaders in those roles. So we dive deep into those conversations and into her work, not only with empowered women in trades, but also the advocacy that Hacia does on her own and through her 2 podcasts in transforming the landscape for women in skilled trades and beyond. So join us as we explore her vision for a future where women thrive in their careers. So are you ready to join me in a powerful discussion on resilience, empowerment, and the incredible impact of supporting women in trades? If you are, then continue listening because here is my conversation with the remarkable miss Hacia Atherton, founder of Empowered Women in Trades. Well, welcome. Welcome once again to another episode of Have A Seat, conversations with women in the Workplace podcast. I am your host, Deborah.

Debra Coleman [00:02:48]:
And joining me in my virtual living room today is miss Hesia or Hesia Underton. Please forgive me if I said that wrong. We just went over how to pronounce your name, so I apologize if I immediately didn't get that. But thank you so much for joining me.

Hacia [00:03:04]:
Thank you for having me. It's an absolute honor.

Debra Coleman [00:03:07]:
It is an honor of mine as well. Oh my goodness. You are such a busy lady, and I am just thrilled that we're taking a few minutes to talk about, your organization, Empowered Women in Trades, which you are the founder of. So exciting. I I I was when when your assistant, Miani, sent me your information, I thought, yes. This is one of the reasons why I this is my inspiration for starting this podcast is to talk to women in these, you know, sort of, like, off the beaten path, you know, industries and especially male dominated to really get your your thoughts and expertise and perspective and lived experience. So very exciting for me. I'm a little bit of fangirling right now, so excuse me.

Hacia [00:03:47]:
I'm a little bit excited.

Debra Coleman [00:03:49]:
Well, hey, Siya. Let's go back a bit to, just a little bit in the beginning. If if you don't mind, we will just take it back to having, experienced a a an a tragic accident, in, 2017, which left you, of course, recovering in the hospital and, really coming battling through some major healing, which I can only assume, involved, you know, spiritually, physically, emotionally healing, just the whole gamut because it was a very pronounced accident. But you mentioned that it was during this season of your life that your perspective shifted. And from that environment, from the healing place, it sort of helped led or maybe open the door to the creation of your organization, Empowered Women in Trades. Can you maybe take us back to that part of your life and how that your perspective shifted and what maybe how that maybe influenced your mission to empower women in trades?

Hacia [00:04:55]:
Yeah. So prior to the horse riding accident, my life was set around goals. So goal to ride for my country, which is Australia. I wanted to get my green and gold jacket. My dad sailed for Australia, so that was always a goal of mine to be able to get my own green or gold jacket and ride at the highest level of dressage. And so as much as that was very motivating, it was a very defined, clear goal. It had a lot of steps to it. I had to get, you know, up to that level.

Hacia [00:05:30]:
I had to win a lot of competitions. I had to get sponsors. It was a very busy life that I had, but it was a life that was set around a goal, a big goal, and an all consuming goal. But when I had the horse riding accident, and I was lying in my hospital bed and, obviously, everything had been taken away from me, my ability to walk. I was trapped in a hospital bed with not being able to even move out of that hospital bed without a whole team transferring me to a different style of bed or wheelie wheelie kind of platform that they could move me around on because the 1st 3 months, I was non weight bearing and even sitting was very, very hard. And in those 3 months, I had a lot of time to reflect and think and and understand, I guess, what life was all about. And I really realized that up until that point, I had been building my life on goals, which was motivating, but not kind of fulfilling and couldn't last something as traumatic as the horse riding accident. So goals can be very fragile in our lives lives and very determined on the external environment that we're in, and that can change within split seconds like I realized.

Hacia [00:06:44]:
So then I shifted to okay. Well, what's the purpose? What's actually our purpose of being here, which is so much deeper than a goal and has so many different layers and elements to that. And I got introduced to positive psychology when I was in a hospital to really help me with my mental well-being because I was struggling with depression and anxiety. I was asking that question to my medical team. Well, what's the point? Like, what's the point of keep going? What's the point of doing all of this physio? What's the point of pushing through the pain? And that led to purpose of, well, what is my purpose in life? And I really decided in that moment, one, I wanted to be the sunshine for other people, and a big purpose of mine is to bring joy and positivity and and uplifting uplifting energy into other people's lives and really use the strengths that I knew I had in me to overcome this accident to really start to break down massive barriers that I saw in the world that women were facing in the skilled trades industry. And I kind of through my journey of hospital thought if I could overcome the odds of teaching myself to walk again when doctors thought that wasn't necessarily possible, If I could push through the physical, mental, emotional pain to be able to achieve that, then maybe this is actually my training ground to build the strength that I need to execute the purpose of taking on the world's biggest boys club. Like, if you look in Australia, we're at 3% female representation in skilled trades. The UK is at about, 2.3%.

Hacia [00:08:30]:
The US sits at about 3% as well. Canada is around that 3 you know, 2 to 3 percent as well. So if we're looking at most of the western countries in the world, you're taking on the biggest boys club. It's the most male dominated industry across all of those countries. And I think that was the real gratitude of I had with my accident and my recovery and understanding that purpose of the accident was to really put me through through a massive boot camp, like a massive training of overcoming adversity and building the mindset that I needed to thrive in adversity. So then once I was out of hospital, I could use everything I learned, through through the strategies I learned to push myself through the mental resilience, through the emotional mastery that I gained to then be able to be someone that can really kick down, bulldoze, tear down the concrete walls that are in the skilled trade industries that are preventing women from thriving in financial careers that give them a lot of financial independence that are fun, that are rewarding. Like, the tradeswoman that I speak to, they're like, I love bringing my kids to the beautiful buildings that I've built, and I was part of building that. I was part of building this home to this family.

Hacia [00:09:55]:
I was part of actually constructing and building society, and women find it so rewarding to be in the trades industry, not just the money, but for what they can do to add to society. And yes. So that's kind of the link between the accident and and what I'm doing now and gave me the kind of strength to be able to take on the biggest boys club in the world.

Debra Coleman [00:10:21]:
Amazing. Yes. The strength. I mean, that is the very definition of strength, overcoming that all the healing, and as you said, the adversity. But I totally see the symmetry between as you because the imagery used is beautiful. You overcoming that adversity yourself physically in your recovery, and then also how that translates then or how that shaped into you know what? I'm gonna carry this forward because there's more adversity to be fought out there, specifically in the trades, and I am gonna bring all that energy and pay it forward and help women. That is amazing. Wow.

Debra Coleman [00:10:59]:
Wow. And I bet, like was there a part of you when when you were back at it and you were healed, that was that would, like, approach these male dominated industries or maybe these good old boys clubs and be like, is that all you've got? Trust me, boys. This is not gonna break me. Like, I don't even know. Yeah.

Hacia [00:11:18]:
Definitely. I, I whip my X rays out quite quickly when men say women aren't tough enough to be, tradespeople. I pull out my X rays, and I'm like, mate, I got crushed by a horse, and I am here in high heels. I've run a half marathon. I'm, you know, climbing literally climbing mountains. Don't you tell me we're not tough enough to be tradespeople? And, you know, if you think you can recover from being crushed by a horse then come back and and say that to me, but at the end of the day, it's also a really great gateway into building very productive relationships with men because men admire my hero story. Once they hear about what I've overcome, they're actually like, wow, that's that's incredible. There's a lot of kind of admiration and respect that comes from that.

Hacia [00:12:09]:
And from there, that creates a really beautiful relationship where I can work with these men to support them in shifting their mindset, in shifting their understanding of changing their views of what a woman can be, and I'm a very feminine woman. I've got long blonde hair, blue eyes. I've get my nails done. I'm very feminine, but also very masculine at the same time. And I think the horse riding accident, again, I'm so grateful for it because it creates that gateway to have a very productive relationship, with the men in the industry to be able to then get them to see someone that is so feminine as strong as well.

Debra Coleman [00:12:53]:
Mhmm. I you are a beautiful woman, by the way. Yes. You you I I pre I will humble brag for you. Wow. What a that is really wonderful to see that transformation or that education or awareness, sort of, you know, blossom and bloom in others as you, you know, let's be fair, are educating them on just maybe, to be fair, what they don't know. Have you seen, you know, some mind shift mindset shifts from our from our male colleagues and male allies in the trades industry and when it comes to how they view women trades women?

Hacia [00:13:31]:
It's definitely shifting, and a lot more work needs to be done. And that's coming back to what you said before. Men don't know what they don't know. And, unfortunately, a lot of the way that we address gender diversity can come across in a way that is quite threatening to men, and I come at it from a deep understanding of psychology. So I've got my master's in positive psychology, and I'm currently a psychology student working towards my master's in organizational psychology. And I dedicate all of my research to actually understanding the masculine experience in the journey towards gender equality. And with a lot of men, they haven't been brought up to regulate their emotions, understand their emotions, and they disconnect themselves from a lot of those emotions because as a society, we tell men that they can either be happy or violent pretty much. You you will see that through movies.

Hacia [00:14:28]:
We see that through sport, and there's a whole range of different emotions. So all of a sudden, you're bringing in change into an environment that men have very much identified their their trade or their career in these industries as what makes them a man. They're a man because they're a plumber or because they're a carpenter or because they're an electrician. And then all of a sudden, you're asking them to work alongside women, which puts them into, you know, identity crisis of, like, well, if a woman can do this, what does that mean for me as a man? That's a very confusing emotional time and everything like that. So for a lot of men that I work with, once you can start to unpack that and really support them to identify and anchor their masculinity to other things like being a protector or being a provider, and not necessarily anchoring their masculinity to their job or their industry or their trade, that mindset just shifts and anti feminine behavior just falls away. If anything, they then start to become the real protectors of women on sight, and they really step into that positive masculinity of going, no. I'm going to be the one that protects my tribe, and the woman is now working on my team. She's part of my tribe.

Hacia [00:15:44]:
If you have a problem with her, you have a problem with me. And it's that kind of base level psychological work around identity and masculine identity that needs to be done to really foster that shift in mindset.

Debra Coleman [00:16:00]:
Masculine identity, absolutely. I can see where that would definitely play a role in this whole, respect. And it sounds like too would would it be safe to say there also has to be some sort of trust build? What you described kind of what flashed through my mind as well was women soldiers, women in the military who maybe have to okay. Yeah. You're here, but what can you really do? And they have to sort of prove themselves and build trust with their male colleagues. Like, I can be relied upon. I do know what I'm doing. I am an equal kind of vibe.

Debra Coleman [00:16:35]:
Would you say that also plays into it a little bit maybe?

Hacia [00:16:38]:
Very much so when you're looking at the trades because similar to the military, like, it is a dangerous environment. It is an environment where deaths do happen. It is an environment if you stuff up or, you know, someone on your team stuffs up your life is at risk. So you've got that higher level of threat versus being an accountant. You know, your Excel is not going to blow up in your face or the Excel spreadsheet if your computer crashes. It's not like you're gonna fall off a 10 foot story building or anything like that. So when you're looking at the physical skilled trades, there there is an element of danger in there. So, again, with those men who are used to feeling safe around other men and feeling that kind of traditional, okay, well, a man can lift or do or unsafe around other men in this environment.

Hacia [00:17:33]:
Yes. There is an element of trust when the woman comes into the environment. Well, are we safe? Like, are you going to be able to step up when you need to step up to be able to, problem solve something? Or if there is an on-site accident, are you gonna be able to handle that, or are you gonna get hysterical? Are you going to be able to be in the mindset to be cool, calm, collected, and be able to do what needs to be done in that moment? Like, if someone's cut off their hand with a drop saw or something like that, are you going to be able to be calm enough to deal with that situation? And that comes from the stereotyping that women are highly emotional and hysterical and all these kind of things. Again, that men generally don't have the understanding that if anything, a woman in that situation probably would be very good because of our natural instinct to nurture, to fix things when we see someone hurt like that. A lot of our natural psychology kicks in to fix that situation, and the hormones that happen in a woman around those situations makes us very good in crises.

Debra Coleman [00:18:41]:
Mhmm. Exactly. I that's very encouraging to hear that there is yeah. As you are seeing, maybe it's glacier paste, but there is some awareness and acceptance out there in that industry, especially. But good points that it you know, I guess some women who might be listening is saying, well, how come I have to prove myself? But everybody does, I think. So, you know, that it kind of maybe sometimes goes beyond gender in some respects that we all just sort of have to prove ourself in what in our respective workplaces to a degree. It's just I I'm I'm learning from you in the trades. There's just a bit more weight to, as you said, white collar worker versus, you know, 10 stories up with a crane or, you know, drilling side by side or whatever it may be.

Debra Coleman [00:19:27]:
So definitely.

Hacia [00:19:29]:
Yeah. There is. And there's that heavy gender stereo typing still very much, in the trade. So it is an uphill battle, for women, unfortunately, but it is changing. And out of all of the men that I've spoken to and all of the men that I've worked with, I would say the true, like, malice and true sexism and the true deep belief that women don't belong in this is very, very small. A lot of the men just don't know what the right thing is to do. They don't know whether they should help the the woman carry the heavy tools and the ladder if they should, if they shouldn't, you know, there's a lot of confusion in in the male demographic around what to do, and therefore, they often just shut down and and by default exclude the female or ignore her or do things like that that makes her feel very uncomfortable or, again, the one person that does have malice has, you know, a bit of bullying and harassment or or sexist as jokes towards that woman and a lot of the men fall in line with that joke, not necessarily to be mean or cruel to the woman, but again out of that fear of that male that is the bully on-site who's bullying them as well, mind you. Men get bullied in this environment too, but, unfortunately, when that kind of alpha bully puts his focus on a female, the other men kind of out of almost safety for themselves go and support him, and if you're the only woman on-site, then all of a sudden you feel all of the men are against you.

Hacia [00:21:03]:
But and this is what I say to a lot of women coming into the environment. Don't come in with the mindset that all men are out to get you. The majority of the men, 95% of the men out there truly have good hearts and truly wanna do the right thing. They're just very, very confused in this day and age what the right thing is to do, and they're very confused on how to support women. For example, around menstruation, men don't understand that. They don't understand some women have endometriosis and it's very painful or some women experience dizziness or nausea, and some women need some extra support on those days. For example, not going up a ladder or they might need some heat packs or different things like that to help them get through the day. If you don't communicate that to the men around you, they don't understand that, and they're gonna do stuff that's not going to feel amazing for you because you might be like, oh my gosh.

Hacia [00:21:59]:
I'm so dizzy today because of my period, and he's forcing me to go up on the ladder. Well, if you don't communicate that to him, he doesn't know. You know? So that's that's where I think it's really important, that we have that education piece for for for men to really understand how to truly support women and create that psychological safety as women for men to ask us silly questions, to ask us those kind of how do I support you or how do I help you or what does support look like for you without having a go at them and kind of going like, well, you should just know or, like, what a stupid question. Like, you we need to create psychologically safe space for men to really learn and explore how to support us as well.

Debra Coleman [00:22:48]:
Oh, beautiful beautiful answer. Psychologically safe spaces. And I also like that you pointed out it's it's a shared effort. It's not all the men's responsibility to be educated and up on this, but it's not also all doesn't fall on the women to be the educator and to be the one to, like, always vocally, like, this is what I need. This is what I need. You know? Together, they can maybe have those, like, needle moving conversations where they learn from each other, but providing that safety, environment for those conversations to happen. So does some of this fall their personnel or their people in talent area too? Does that does that come into play in any of helping to foster this this inclusivity?

Hacia [00:23:34]:
I think it very much does. And, unfortunately, a lot of the trade industries all over the world, the kind of majority of them are those SME organizations. So they don't necessarily have l and d learning development departments or human resource departments. A lot of them are trades people themselves that have built up their business to, like, 20, 30 employees. So they don't necessarily, again, have that resource or or support, and that's where I feel a lot of the weight needs to fall on the government to be able to provide kind of frameworks for these SMEs of, like, even just how to navigate those conversations, what are good converse you know, what a good kind of, questions to ask when you're onboarding a female so that you make sure that you're setting up the right kind of environment to support you. I think the governments in these countries definitely need to look at producing almost checklists for, trades business Do you have sanitary items in your first aid kit? Do you have if you don't have male or female toilets, do you at least have a lock on your toilet? Do you have some sort of sanitary bins in your toilets and different things like that? So some of those kind of really basic checklists, do you have female fitting uniforms and harnesses and work boots and all of those kind of things? That's where the industry bodies and government need to step up to provide these support packs for those SME organizations to truly support onboarding. And then if you are a business owner, like, you are responsible to always grow in your education and your knowledge as a leader, whether that's understanding changes in the taxation system all the way to understanding how you create psychologically safe environments for your workers. So if you are an employer of anyone, you should constantly be out there understanding how do I improve my leadership skills and what don't I know in this space and especially for men in male dominated industries, employing their first female or bringing females into the business.

Hacia [00:25:43]:
As leaders, you need to be asking yourselves the questions. What don't I know in this space and having the courage to go to the females that you're employing and be vulnerable and say, hey. You are the first female I'm employing. This is a learning curve for me, and I need to go on this learning curve with you. So I need you to have the courage to speak up and educate me on what good looks like. How can I be a good leader and a good employer for you? I don't know the answer to that, so you're gonna have to help me.

Debra Coleman [00:26:15]:
Oh, you know, I honestly wanna do just a sound bite of that right there and just share it with, like, every male business owner from here to Australia. Just, like, do it, please. That was beautiful. I mean, it showed, you know, vulnerability, transparency, a willingness to learn, a willingness to be collaborative. That was oh, wow. That was I was like, and maybe maybe it's not fair of me to say, like, pick on the, like, the gender male female dynamic. Maybe that's just a leadership principle that should probably be followed more often than not.

Hacia [00:26:50]:
Yeah. And look. And that's a principle you can flip on to female dominated environments as well. A female dominated environment, you're bringing men into the into your environment for the first time. That's the questioning that you need to go through. Or, again, if you're employing any minority group, that you don't understand necessarily, for example, their culture or different things like that. Those kind of questions is is really important. And I promise you, any kind of minority group that you're engaging with, if you go through that structure of talking to them that way, no one's gonna turn around and be like, wow.

Hacia [00:27:25]:
What a prick. Like, you know?

Debra Coleman [00:27:32]:
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Hacia [00:27:35]:
Gonna be like, what an idiot. He doesn't know about something or that that leader doesn't know about something that's completely foreign to them, and they're being such a prick in asking me to be their mentor in how to be able to create a safe and safe and supportive environment for me. Like, it's if you set it up that way and you show up with with vulnerability and just with that honesty in your heart that I want to do the right thing, I don't know what the right thing is, and I need your support in making sure I develop, leadership skills and develop an organizational culture that supports you. No one's going to victimize you for showing up with such honesty and such vulnerability.

Debra Coleman [00:28:19]:
100%. 100% agree. And that was one of the emotions that kicked off for me when you said those words was respect. Like, that if the leader said that to me, I would be yeah. Much respect. Thank you for even having the bravery to say that. I'm gonna work with this person. You know? So absolutely.

Debra Coleman [00:28:36]:
Wow. Very good. Very good. So tell us then how does empowered women in trades help with this advocacy?

Hacia [00:28:45]:
So we look at the kind of two sides of the coin around the attraction to the industry and then retention in the industry. And retention is very much about what we've been speaking about and creating, supportive, inclusive culture using positive psychology, to do that and really looking at it from a psychology lens of how we create environments where all humans can feel a sense of belonging and and collaboration and teamwork. So we've got different programs that run-in that space. And then on the attraction space, we run programs from, in within our schooling system. So introducing female and gender diverse students within secondary school to the skilled trades industry to really start to build up that pipeline of them thinking about that as a career option, and then we run programs outside of, the schooling system to really create, 1, a community of women. So when you go through the program, you're going through with other women and gender diverse people. And then 2, to be able to create that little bubble of community while we bring you into the most male dominated industries in Australia. So we get these women out into a construction site or onto a manufacturing floor.

Hacia [00:30:05]:
They're in the community of the women that are participating in the group, but they're also engaging with the male leaders in the industry. They're engaged with the other trades people. They're getting to have a sense and a feel of what it's like to be in those industries and making them also very aware that, yes, it's great that you're in a group of 4 or 5 or 6 women now. But if you were to take employment at this place, you're most likely going to be the only female here. But a lot of women feel comfortable doing that step once they've had that ability to understand and explore the industry in that community field first, and then they've kind of been able to ask all of their questions. They've been able to feel safe and vulnerable, and then they go, okay. Yes. I have the courage to be the trailblazer, to be the change maker, to be the first woman on this construction side or on this manufacturing floor, and be the reason that more women will then come in and and join me as well, which I think is so exciting because every woman that's going into the industry right now, they're making history.

Hacia [00:31:12]:
They are the trailblazers. They are the change makers, and they are the ones that are making a better industry for humanity.

Debra Coleman [00:31:22]:
Building in every sense, both literally building and then also, like, emotionally and psychologically and mentally building something together. Oh.

Hacia [00:31:31]:
Mhmm.

Debra Coleman [00:31:32]:
Amazing. Amazing, Heisea. Oh, goodness. What a wonderful organization. It seems like you just have all the bases covered for women in the skilled trades, all over Australia, honestly, and beyond, really. Because your website is chock full of resources and everything, like you said, that spelled out where if you are a woman in the trades, this is a wonderful resource for you, to connect and be a part of the your community. I love that. Unbelievable.

Debra Coleman [00:32:01]:
So good. Such good work.

Hacia [00:32:02]:
And it's oh, and that's a game to understand the psychology of men and women. You know, we're not the same men male psychology is very driven around achievement and very driven around that that winning kind mindset and achieving things. The women, like, feminine psychology is much around more around, like, social bonds, social acceptance, all of those different things, which is amazing because when you bring those 2 together, you create such a powerful environment. And that's why I'm so passionate about increasing female representation in male dominated environments because at the moment it has turned very toxic because it's all about winning in there. They'll do whatever they can to kind of win and compete against each other and tear each other down because they don't have that sense of community, of of social bonding. When we increase the female representation, you start to bring that community that need the social bonding into it, and you reduce that very high level of achievement at, you know, whatever it takes to win mentality, and you start to really balance it out into this beautiful yin and yang of the feminine and masculine.

Debra Coleman [00:33:17]:
That is there's strength in numbers. Right? We're better we're stronger together than we are divided. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. But it's also good, I would say, I would think too for women in trades or those who identify as female to to know that their male colleagues or their male allies aren't necessarily the enemy right off the bat either. You know? We don't need to be constantly on the defensive either.

Hacia [00:33:40]:
No. And I think that's the important thing to understand with every woman that I mentor going into these industries is take that ability to kind of step back. And and when there is aggression thrown at you, you situation state of feeling under threat. He's in a fight or flight situation. So if anything, have empathy for him going, Wow, This is very challenging for you. I understand that, and think about how you can actually bring his cortisol levels down, how you can take him out of that fight or flight, situation. And there was a situation when I was on a construction site and this male was very aggressive, very aggressive towards me, very anti feminine in the trades. And I just came at him with curiosity.

Hacia [00:34:35]:
I said, look, you're obviously very passionate about this. I actually love passion, and I admire passion in whatever direction that goes. So could you tell me, like, why are you so passionate about the fact that women don't belong in in the skilled trades industry and it's unsafe and it's going to distract men and dada. Okay. Why do you think that? And I just got really curious. And by the time we finished the conversation, his main fear was that he wasn't going to be able to protect women on-site and they were going to get hurt or they were going to get harassed. And he felt so out of control that he couldn't protect and keep women safe on-site. The only way he knew how to deal with that was to defend the site and make sure women didn't feel welcome and therefore, that was his kind of convoluted way of going, I'm keeping women safe.

Hacia [00:35:27]:
But once he understood where that emotion was coming from, then he started to join, like, safety committees, diversity and inclusion committees, and he's a massive champion now for how do we create a culture of safety for women in the trades. But that was because I took that moment to not come at his defense with defensiveness, tap into my femininity of going, I'm going to hold space. I'm going to be really curious,

Debra Coleman [00:35:56]:
and I'm

Hacia [00:35:57]:
going to kind of work through this strong emotion with with this man and see where it's to counteract his over activated to counteract his over activated masculine mindset. And that's where we come back to that yin and the yang of the masculine and feminine resulted in a really positive outcome.

Debra Coleman [00:36:25]:
Oh, wow. That is a really beautiful story of, as you said, the power of the yin and the yang and bringing both strengths together, but working them into, like, a bit puzzle piece. Like, let's just see how we can and I love that you approached it with a sense of curiosity. That right there, I'm sure, was a huge, like, breakdown immediately. Like, oh, okay. We're gonna talk. We're gonna have a discussion. Okay.

Debra Coleman [00:36:49]:
Alright. Okay. Let me let me settle down a little bit and just and

Hacia [00:36:52]:
talk. Yeah. I just said he was so confused when I'm like, I love passion. Do you mind if we, you know, unpack unpack where this passion's coming from? And he's like, what? Like, he was not expecting it, and it just disarmed him because I was like, thank you. Thank you for being so passionate. Thank you for feeling comfortable around me to show such strong emotion. And he was like, what? And and showing curiosity and gratitude and holding space for him completely disarms him, where if I stepped into my masculine and came at him with, like, no. It's our time.

Hacia [00:37:28]:
We belong here and tried to fight him. It would have blown up. You know? So I was like, if if anything, whenever I see whenever I see anyone in their very masculine mindset, I step into my extreme feminine mindset. I activate my empathy, my curiosity, my ability to stay calm and hold space, and I just go really into that feminine, and that just deescalates the masculine when people are very hypermasculine.

Debra Coleman [00:38:01]:
Listen, listeners, that is advice of 2024 right there. Add that bit of advice to your workplace toolkit. That can be applied both at work and outside of work. That is just very strong and affirming and empowering advice because it's, it's really a win win. You know, you're not trying to hold counsel over somebody or sway them. You're really promoting let's learn and educate each other. Tell me about you, your story, and I will share mine. And maybe together, we can come up with the heart of the issue and find a way to work around it or through it or with it.

Debra Coleman [00:38:36]:
Yeah. Oh, love

Hacia [00:38:38]:
that. Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:38:39]:
That is so great.

Hacia [00:38:40]:
And it takes the heavy lifting off women having to do the work. You know? I think that's what often happens in this in this, drive for gender equality is so much of the weight of the work is always put on the women. But if we, as women, can really step into that feminine, which gives us energy and hold that space and use our feminine strength to really support the men and, like, the divine feminine always heals and supports the divine masculine. So I think we're very much in our desire to be women in male dominated environments. We often underestimate the power of our femininity, and we feel we have to show up in our masculinity, which is actually the worst thing you can do.

Debra Coleman [00:39:28]:
Yeah. It seems very counterproductive, honestly. It might feel like, you know, look at me. I'm standing in my superhero pose, and I'm then I'm, like, going, like, chest to chest with somebody. But, actually, that yes. I can see where that would be counterproductive in some circumstances. You know? Absolutely.

Hacia [00:39:45]:
Yeah. Exactly. And it it's draining on you. It takes a lot more effort to be able to to show up in that and stay in that state. Like, we're very good at going into that state when we need to, but being held in that state is just very draining on our psychological well-being. It's it's it's it's very tough, and I know it's hard to step into your feminine when you're not feeling safe, and that's where the courage comes in. Because if you can just hold that space in that kind of empathy, in that curiosity, in that storytelling, in that being able to guide conversation, use your intuition, your gut feel, and have the courage to really double down on your feminine strengths, you'll get a lot further in a male dominated industry than if you're trying to show up in that masculine because you start to build trust because men again will have an intuition and they will have a subconscious kind of radar going up. And if you're showing up in your armor and you're showing up in a kind of mindset and energy that's truly not authentically you, they're going to mistrust you.

Hacia [00:40:54]:
They're gonna go something is just not right here, and they're gonna mistrust you. Where if you show up in your in your true authentic self, yes, you are going to build trust. And if they see you having the courage to stay in that space, you also start to build that kind of like, okay. Yes. I respect respect that she's staying strong and true to herself. I feel like I can trust her, and that's when you can start to really build that psychological safety to have the conversation to then cocreate the environment that's gonna support you and your male counterparts to thrive in the workplace.

Debra Coleman [00:41:33]:
So well said. Co create together. Yes. Abs so well said. It's and that, it really is empowering. It really is. It may not may like, initially feel like it, but it really is that you're coming from a place of strength as you said. Oh, so good.

Debra Coleman [00:41:50]:
Oh my gosh. I could just go on and just or just drop off and let you continue. Good stuff. Again, this really just crosses industry lines. It's just it's very empowering speak, that we can all use a little dose of quite frankly You're welcome. As I say, it's you know, the time to fight is over. It's

Hacia [00:42:16]:
the time to unite as humanity. We just need to unite, especially as the AI revolution's starting to come. We're all starting to question what being human means in this new world and everything like that, and that's where we you need to unite as humans, as a race of humans and stop kind of dividing and fighting each other.

Debra Coleman [00:42:37]:
So true. Absolutely. There's strength in numbers. Yeah. You're right. We're all part of this race, the human race. So Yeah. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:42:44]:
Good point. That's right. We are. In many ways, I believe it. We are entering into a new phase. All of those sci fi movies are actually sort of rearing their heads now in reality, and so yeah. Good point. Good point.

Debra Coleman [00:42:57]:
Absolutely. Oh, well, if my listeners want more of this and would love to hear more from you, where can they find you? And please share with us a little bit about your own podcast.

Hacia [00:43:08]:
Yes. So I am on LinkedIn with, Haciar, so h a c I a is how you spell my first name. Atherton is my last name, and so you can get me on LinkedIn, Instagram. I've got my own personal site as well as the empowered women in trades, website, and empowered women in trades has their own LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok and all of that stuff as well. So you can follow both of us. I do other stuff outside of just the skilled trades area, so that's where my podcast thriving with Hacia is about to be released, which is where I speak with amazing people all around the world that are creating thriving communities, thriving organizations, thriving societies, and just those kind of real leaders and game changers in the world, which is very exciting. And then, my other page is thriving leadership solutions on LinkedIn as well.

Debra Coleman [00:44:13]:
Oh, gosh. I love it. Well, congratulations on both fronts for both podcasts, but definitely for your own. If it's anything if it's even in the neighborhood of what we talked about today, it is going to be a tremendous success because this is exactly the type of conversations that need to be shared and the information flow. So congratulations to you. That's exciting.

Hacia [00:44:33]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Debra Coleman [00:44:36]:
Not to mention we need more female podcasters out there. So, yay, you. That's fantastic.

Hacia [00:44:42]:
We do. And we just need more positivity out there in the world in general. There's just there's so much negativity. There's just so much violence. There's so much sadness that's happening, and that's what the media generally focuses on. So that's why it's so important to kind of counteract a lot of that negativity that we're bombarded with every day in the media with these empowering conversations to be able to fill us with the positive energy that we need as human beings for our, psychological, physical, mental well-being.

Debra Coleman [00:45:15]:
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Absolutely. Absolutely. And not only that, but what you're sharing with us also doesn't at least it didn't it didn't make me feel helpless. Like, there's something I can do to help move that societal needle or, you know, my in my my career needle or how I feel. And when I work in walk into my workplace, I don't have to be powerless or a victim. I can actually do something to empower myself and others and bring them along on the journey.

Debra Coleman [00:45:42]:
So that lends to your messaging, I think, as well. So very important.

Hacia [00:45:47]:
Very, very important for anyone that is listening to this and does feel that sense of, helplessness or hopelessness, which is very heartbreaking and and very hard to deal with. My advice and the most empowering thing that you can do is really start to focus on gratitude. And every day, talk about 3 things that you're grateful for, and some people say to me, my life is so terrible. There's nothing that I'm grateful for. So in the days that I've had, like, massive surgeries, I've had my SI joints fused. I've had my right hip replaced. I've had major spinal surgery. And in those days, I just focus on the fact that I'm so grateful that I'm breathing.

Hacia [00:46:30]:
I'm so grateful I've got my, 2 little minpings, Coco and Louie at home, and I'm so grateful that even though my body is broken, I've still got my mind. So no matter what happens, you could be grateful that you have hot water in your house, you're breathing, and you've got a roof over your head. Just focus on the three things that you're grateful for, and that will really start to turn that that cycle of hopeless hopelessness around because as soon as you start focusing on positivity, positivity will grow.

Debra Coleman [00:47:04]:
I love that. Yes. As soon as you start focusing on positivity, positivity will grow. That's I fully believe that as well. It can't help but, you know, you plant those seeds, they can't help but grow. Absolutely. But I admit that sometimes we need a little help in getting those seeds in the bucket and then spread around. So thank you for acknowledging that.

Debra Coleman [00:47:23]:
We may have our difficult days or months or seasons, but there is hope there and, and and strength and support. Yeah. Absolutely.

Hacia [00:47:32]:
As I say, if you're still alive, you still got hope.

Debra Coleman [00:47:35]:
There you go. There you go. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. There it is. Oh, I love this conversation. Hi, Sia.

Debra Coleman [00:47:44]:
Thank you so much. Oh my goodness. And as always, I will have link in the show notes for all of the resources and ways to connect with Hacia that she mentioned. So please check out the show notes for those. Would before I let you hop though, would you have time for one last bonus question?

Hacia [00:48:00]:
Of course.

Debra Coleman [00:48:01]:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Okay. So as you've demonstrated to us, you are a busy lady. You've got a lot going on. You're in charge of a lot. You're a part of many organizations and your podcast and your work and your school, not to mention your continuing education. When, life gets crazy and you start to feel pulled in many directions, what do you do to help you reset and rebalance and sort of bring it back to ground 0 to let you refocus and live your best life again?

Hacia [00:48:32]:
The power of 60 seconds. So the power of a minute. I think we overlook the power of a minute so much. So when I'm starting to feel super anxious, super overwhelmed, I've got emails coming, phone coming, so much coming, I take a minute just to center myself, just to focus on my breathing. I usually like to go outside into nature to do this just just 60 seconds. Everyone's got 60 seconds. You're never too busy for 60 seconds. And just slow your world down because that'll bring the cortisol levels down, brings your heart rate down, and just really tell yourself I'm safe.

Hacia [00:49:11]:
I'm not under threat. I've got this. I believe in myself and whatever you need to tell yourself with that positive mindset. 60 seconds, focus on your breathing, really feel it come in and out of your lungs, talk to yourself in a very positive way, and then go back to whatever war you're you're battling or facing, but the power of 60 seconds.

Debra Coleman [00:49:37]:
Look at that. I think you just named your next podcast. The power of 60 right there. Oh, yes. Beautifully said. Well, we are grateful that you do take those 60 seconds in those moments because we are are selfishly the benefit and the recipients of all of that wonderful positivity and empowerment that you provide. So oh, hey, Sia. Thank you so very much for sharing your expertise and your knowledge and just your messaging with us in terms of, you know, it goes beyond the the trades work that you do.

Debra Coleman [00:50:11]:
It really is an empowering females in the workplace and how we can help make it a better environment for all of us.

Hacia [00:50:18]:
Yes. Exactly. It's it's time for us, as I said, to unite as humans and learn how we can support each other as humans and create a deep sense of belonging amongst humanity again because we've really lost that. We have lost that connection, that sense of belonging in in ourselves. So I'm very passionate about getting us back to that point where we connect and we belong and we support each other as fellow humans with such high levels of respect.

Debra Coleman [00:50:48]:
High levels of respect. Absolute. Good work. Good work you are doing. Please continue it. We need more in the world absolutely in that thought process. So I love it. I love it.

Debra Coleman [00:51:00]:
Thank you for picking up that torch and and and going into the forest for us. And because we will follow. We just need we just need more of you. That's all.

Hacia [00:51:10]:
Well, if a 600 killing horse didn't stop me, nothing's gonna stop me.

Debra Coleman [00:51:15]:
Yay. There you go. Applause. Applause. That's it right there. Right there. Oh, thank you again, Asia. This was amazing.

Hacia [00:51:24]:
You are so welcome.

Debra Coleman [00:51:27]:
And that wraps up my inspiring conversation with miss Hacia Atherton. I hope you found Hacia's insights as inspiring and empowering as I did. Her dedication to overcoming adversity and championing, gender equality in the trades and beyond is I'm I honestly it's truly remarkable. So thank you again, miss Hacia, for taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule to having a seat with me and sharing with us your experience, your knowledge, your journey, and your expertise. Hacia's efforts with empowered women in trades and all of the work they are doing there, they are truly paving the way for a more inclusive and supportive environment for women in skilled trades. If you were moved by Hacia's story and want to learn more about the work she is doing or how you can get involved, please be sure to check out the show notes for all the ways to connect with Hacia. And while you're in the show notes, don't forget to visit the Have A Seat website for more inspiring conversations with amazing women making a difference in the workplace, just like Hacia Atherton. So once again, my friend keep listening, be inspired, stay safe, be well, and remember, keep having those conversations.