Burnout, Boundaries, and Boxing Gloves: A Real Talk Reset with Dr. Jen Harrison

00:00.79
Debra Coleman
Well, welcome back to another episode of Have a Seat, Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. And joining me this week, I have the absolute honor. And I have to say, because I'm also in higher education, this is a really special conversation um with Dr. Jen Harrison, who is a dissertation coach and creator of the platform Read Write Perfect.

00:23.90
Debra Coleman
Thank you, Dr. Jen, for joining me this afternoon. I truly appreciate you taking the time.

00:28.35
Jennifer Harrison
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00:31.07
Debra Coleman
Me too. Me too. And this is a topic I can honestly say that I have not had the pleasure of discussing yet on my podcast. So this is going to be really interesting and fun. And i because I know many like me are who I went back to school and and obtained my bachelor's when I was full on adulting.

00:49.88
Debra Coleman
Um, you know, like I newly married new house, like the whole thing, full-time job. And then it's like, Hey, here's an idea. Go back to school. Okay. You know, so, um, I can absolutely appreciate a little bit maybe of what we're going to discuss today.

01:02.71
Debra Coleman
And I'm just fascinated to hear but some of your advice and guidance in that area. So thank you.

01:07.56
Jennifer Harrison
You're very yeah okay

01:10.78
Debra Coleman
Let's see. So let's start um with maybe, you know, ah maybe one of the most obvious questions is you ah you work with many first gen ESL non-traditional students of which. ah Hello, I'm team non-traditional um and a woman myself. And as I just mentioned, I was juggling like my career and my family and, of course, the academic pressures that come with going back to school.

01:33.88
Debra Coleman
um Why did you feel the need to create Read Write Perfect? Did you feel there was maybe something missing in that space of dissertation and and academia?

01:44.56
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, absolutely. So um I actually started Rewrite Perfect during the whole COVID mess. I was working as a professor at the time and I was an adjunct professor and things were tough for adjunct professors.

01:57.43
Jennifer Harrison
um You know, the whole of higher education was struggling and and nobody had any job security and least of all adjuncts. And so that felt like the right time to think about stepping away from a faculty position and pursuing a business. And what I was seeing all around me was um students had...

02:14.33
Jennifer Harrison
you know, they they already had all of the traditional being a woman, non-traditional ESL struggles, um, You know, they had families, they had other jobs that they were contending with. They, you know, some of them were pregnant. And so there was all that stress. And then on top of that, they were suddenly told, now you're going to be learning virtually. You're not allowed in the classrooms.

02:33.82
Jennifer Harrison
All of the parameters for your course have changed. And so like that was a real stress point for students. And I realized at that time that I had the skills where I'd be able to help them a lot more directly if I started a business than I was able to as a struggling faculty member. And so that was kind of where the, um but you know, the business was born.

02:51.80
Jennifer Harrison
if that makes sense.

02:52.71
Debra Coleman
It does. Absolutely. Yes. Wow. I love that you saw the need and you filled it in this way. And how has the response been?

03:01.74
Jennifer Harrison
The response has been really, really good actually. I think bigger than I expected it to be when I started the business. um I should say when I started it, I didn't specifically say, oh, I'm gonna set out to help you know only women, women need a space, like they need the support.

03:15.22
Jennifer Harrison
I was kind of just there saying, I'm gonna help anybody who needs help with a dissertation. you know I've got these skills, I can do this. um And what I found is that the vast majority of students who come to me are women.

03:28.10
Jennifer Harrison
They're usually women who are either in like a high ah performing business role or they are juggling, you know, parenthood, family, multiple jobs and and are trying to do this in their spare time. And they have all these other. And so but I was finding like there was a demographic that gravitated naturally towards me.

03:45.40
Jennifer Harrison
And I came to realize as well, a lot of it was women of color. who saw my face on my website and were like, oh, thank goodness, like not another white man who's gonna talk down to me.

03:54.06
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm.

03:54.60
Jennifer Harrison
This person is actually gonna understand what it's like to be a mom and who and understands what it's like to be like a woman of color in that space. And so I found that those were the people who were looking for me. And because of that, I ended up tailoring my services much more towards them. And that's kind of where I've ended up now.

04:09.90
Debra Coleman
Oh, gosh, I love that. And I can absolutely relate with to everything you said. I have not had the pleasure, question mark, of trying to ah work on a dissertation. um But I understand that that you know higher education and being a student in that environment, it's real. The struggle is definitely real.

04:26.75
Debra Coleman
um

04:26.88
Jennifer Harrison
Okay.

04:27.28
Debra Coleman
And you are so right. After 2020, it just seems like, wow, higher education just kind of got sent on the tailspin a little bit for everyone from tip to toe, administrators, faculty, staff, everyone, students, faculty,

04:38.81
Debra Coleman
um So, wow, I can only imagine the response, as you said, would have been amazing. And I love that you recognize, well, let me start a different platform to get that help out there because maybe if people don't feel as comfortable um in my work environment. let me sit Let me set something separately out there. You know, um I love that.

04:57.25
Debra Coleman
and You recognize that. um Because yeah cause there is something different about coming at somebody for advice through a business storefront, so to speak, versus if you have a few minutes, you know, kind of thing.

05:00.07
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

05:09.03
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, yeah. I think um like part of the challenge was that a lot of faculty members were just so overwhelmed themselves. um And a lot of students didn't feel comfortable with what was being provided in-house.

05:22.11
Jennifer Harrison
So for some of them, it was they were not getting on with their supervisor or they felt that the the resources provided by the school were inadequate. And that can come across as a complaint and sets you up in this kind of situation of conflict. And so for a lot of them, like seeking help from outside just felt like it was safer, it was more likely to be effective, it was gonna take less of their energy, it was lower risk. And um so I think that is kind of, and I think that is still true. I think that's what a lot of students feel.

05:51.72
Debra Coleman
Absolutely. I agree. I agree. As you said, especially BIPOC women, women of color in that environment. And I would, i I know because I felt it myself, but women in academia, we can, it can really feel isolating, as you've mentioned, as you've alluded to, and even possibly toxic at times. um So how can women in that situation, especially maybe BIPOC women, advocate for themselves and create possibly some support systems that may help them thrive? Is that possible?

06:22.16
Jennifer Harrison
It is possible. I think the key word there is support systems. um There's a lot that's inbuilt into the system and there's a lot that's unspoken in the current higher education system that makes it ah not necessarily a welcoming space, um but setting up your own systems of support.

06:41.74
Jennifer Harrison
And being very deliberate about that, um I think, is the way that you can thrive. You know, being very open, being very deliberate and being very willing to see outside of the higher education space. Because I think once you're in one of those institutions, they almost become like their own little world. They're like a bubble.

07:00.24
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

07:00.97
Jennifer Harrison
And you get so caught up in what's going on on the inside that you forget that there's a world outside.

07:05.85
Debra Coleman
yeah

07:06.14
Jennifer Harrison
um So I think like having those connections to the world outside of academia, that is like your your strongest anchoring point. If you're going to go into that that space and you are finding that it's a toxic environment.

07:18.95
Jennifer Harrison
I would also say that um there's almost like a polarity at the minute where it's either kind of. shut up and push on when you're in there. Like, you know, just get on with your job. Don't complain.

07:29.74
Jennifer Harrison
Don't make a scene. Just try and fit in. There's like that. And then there's the like, oh, you're a woman of color. So you must be the voice in the face for every woman of color who is out there.

07:37.64
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm.

07:38.09
Jennifer Harrison
You must be the advocate. You've got to make the changes happen. I think both of those positions are very exhausting. So I think another really important thing to remember is it's not all on you to fix the system. Like the system is broken and that's not your fault.

07:50.18
Jennifer Harrison
um And it's entirely valid to protect yourself in your own space. before you start thinking about how you can fix things for other people.

07:58.86
Debra Coleman
Oh my gosh. I can't even tell you that right there. I could stop the show right now because that message right there is everything. It is. i have, I heard and have heard since 2020. So often women of color saying, why am i responsible for educating everybody on DEI and B or why am I, why is it on me to have these conversations or to start the dialogue or, you know, it's, it's exhausting.

08:25.33
Jennifer Harrison
It is. And I've heard so many times from students who've come to me and, you know, they're coming to me with problems like, I want to write about um black women in the workplace, or I want to research black women in teaching or in nursing. but I've been told that it's too controversial a topic or I've been told that it's not rigorous enough or I'm pigeonholing myself or like my supervisor just keeps telling me the research isn't good enough. It's not strong enough. And when I say to them, well, that's you know not true. Your topic is great. Like the work you have is great. you

08:57.66
Jennifer Harrison
You can stand up for yourself. They're saying, I'm i'm too tired. I'm exhausted. I just want to get through this. Like, I don't want any more hassle. I don't want to spend more money on extra semesters. I don't want to fight anyone. I don't want a grievance. I just want to get done.

09:09.22
Debra Coleman
Yeah. And that's sad. That's heartbreaking.

09:12.41
Jennifer Harrison
It is, it is because it's unfair to ask people to shoulder that burden. um But of course, at some point, somebody is going to have to otherwise the the problem just continues. and But I don't think we should take that on ourselves as women of color working in the space. Like I think there are wider responsibilities there.

09:29.87
Debra Coleman
True. So true. That's very true. And it seems like I'd like to kind of pick up where where you started with this, that burnout and stress seem, ah they almost seem inevitable. I mean, as I hate to say that, but ah for women in in high pressure academic spaces, if you will.

09:46.64
Debra Coleman
um So are there some or what would you suggest some ah some maybe some practical strategies for maybe managing that overwhelm while, as you said, staying on track with their big goals like dissertations? Is there any sort of practical strategies that you can offer to kind of help with mindset maybe?

10:04.66
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, definitely. I mean, and I think the first one is to go back to that idea of having your support communities. um That is the thing that I've seen over the years that has helped people the most. And I think a lot of people go into the degree thinking that that is going to be ah given, that either the school will provide it or they have a strong one already.

10:22.65
Jennifer Harrison
um But once they get into the program, they realize that it is an informal structure or it's missing altogether from the institution or it is... you know, um it's it's there in principle, but in practice, it's not.

10:33.16
Jennifer Harrison
So I would say when you're thinking about one of these degrees or you're already in one of these degrees, be very deliberate about your support systems, like line people up and have a conversation with them. Hey, you're going to be my accountability buddy.

10:44.74
Jennifer Harrison
Or when I'm really sad, you're the person I'm going to call. Is that okay? Like have those conversations up front, um go and research.

10:48.54
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm.

10:52.21
Jennifer Harrison
Like when you're stuck with, you know, you know, maybe you're doing your lit review and you don't necessarily know how to find sources, already have the number of the librarian handy for yourself. Um, line up an editor, line up someone who does transcriptions, like vet them, have the conversations with them, ask them about prices, like do all that work before you get to the point where you need it. So that when you're in a stressful situation, say, you know, you've got a deadline next week and suddenly your supervisor has changed the, um,

11:22.58
Jennifer Harrison
you know, the goalposts and told you that you've got to have everything perfectly edited when you hand it in. You don't have to go scrambling and spending your time and energy looking for an editor. You've already got a list and it's all sorted and ready to go. Or, you know, that deadline has changed, but you've already arranged with your mom that she'll take care of your kids um in emergencies.

11:39.42
Jennifer Harrison
when you need to work through the night or whatever it may be. So I would say like be really deliberate, sign up for writing groups, um join forums where there are other students that you can talk to, like go and and find your people and do it before you start or as soon as possible.

11:54.46
Jennifer Harrison
Like once you know that you need to do that. think that's the top, top strategy.

12:00.62
Debra Coleman
That is fantastic. And you know, my takeaway from that, ah in addition to to everything you said was proactive. That seemed to have a very proactive messaging.

12:09.47
Jennifer Harrison
Absolutely. Yeah, being proactive um and also like not being afraid to ask for help, because I think that is also like the next biggest barrier or challenge that I see from students is they they think it's not OK.

12:22.60
Jennifer Harrison
to ask somebody to get them a takeout or to book a babysitter or to ah like take a break from the work because they're starting to feel tired or to tell a supervisor that deadline is not okay. Like i think not being afraid to put yourself and your needs first, whether that need is I need a professional editor or whether that need is I need an evening off so that I can sit and chill and eat some ice cream and come back to this another day with a fresh mind.

12:49.92
Jennifer Harrison
um So I think like, being aware of your own needs and being willing to advocate for them. Even if there's something small, even if they feel unimportant, like don't write yourself off, don't write your needs off.

13:05.13
Jennifer Harrison
Ask for what you need. The worst thing that can happen is somebody says no, in which case you've got to think again, but you won't know until you ask.

13:13.37
Debra Coleman
That's right. You won't know until yet. And I love that honesty and transparency of that advice too. um you know have ah Have your mom on standby you know to watch wash the littles if you need her.

13:24.13
Debra Coleman
Let people know when you're sad or when you're feeling stressed and you need to just take a break and eat some.

13:27.11
Jennifer Harrison
so

13:28.17
Debra Coleman
like I love that that human part. Because I can imagine when you're tackling something like a dissertation that you just get stuck in your bubble and you just maybe have this ah this unrealistic expectation on yourself that you have to be everything, do all the things.

13:43.17
Debra Coleman
um And I love that you advocate for just being transparent and being honest.

13:47.79
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, I mean, the number of times that I've had students say, um I had a major health issue this week. Oh, and my mom was hospitalized and like one of my kids had the flu.

13:54.61
Debra Coleman
Hmm.

13:56.03
Jennifer Harrison
So I'm going to be a day late. And I'm like, what are you doing a day late? Like, take the week off. Like, you don't need to be doing this right now. And if anyone is telling you, you do, they don't have your best interests at heart.

14:06.41
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Exactly. i don't You're right. If someone doesn't understand that or can't empathize with that, then that's ah that's a red flag right there.

14:17.15
Jennifer Harrison
Yes.

14:17.03
Debra Coleman
um But and most of all, you. You need to give yourself some grace and space. And during this but season that you're ah of your life that you're tackling this, wow.

14:25.46
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, it starts with you.

14:26.05
Debra Coleman
Now I see...

14:27.35
Jennifer Harrison
Yes.

14:27.64
Debra Coleman
ah Yeah. um Well, now I see why you are such a successful coach because that right there, you know, that's just so welcoming and so warm and very like, Hey, you're, ah you're going to be okay.

14:38.05
Debra Coleman
You're going to get through this. There are other things, you know, this is important. Yes. But there are other things that do take precedence sometimes. So yeah, I love that.

14:44.92
Jennifer Harrison
yes

14:47.29
Debra Coleman
I love that.

14:47.59
Jennifer Harrison
And then, of course, at the other end of that spectrum as a coach is saying, okay, well, you've given yourself a lot of grace over the last two months, but you really do need to write this chapter at some point.

14:47.68
Debra Coleman
Wow.

14:57.96
Jennifer Harrison
If life is preventing you from doing that to this extent, consider whether you need a leave from your program or, you know, either you've got to sit down and work now. or we've got to think about other options for your program.

15:09.29
Jennifer Harrison
so So sometimes you do need someone on the outside to give you some perspective about how much time you're taking for yourself and how much time you're taking for your dissertation and whether you're still on the right path.

15:18.50
Debra Coleman
Sure. Oh, absolutely. That's true. there's yeah There's a flip side, which, yeah. And that would be me, Dr. Jen, full stop.

15:25.67
Jennifer Harrison
Wait.

15:26.00
Debra Coleman
I'd be like, Dr. Jen, you need to like, tell me, crack the whip a little bit, keep me online, you know, and gently in a loving way, but you know, still, um yeah, I get that. I can set definitely see that for sure.

15:37.74
Debra Coleman
um well now i work i'm going to change course just slightly um and if you don't mind and we'll discuss confidence just for a minute um for those who might be listening whether they are you know maybe they're not exactly tackling a dissertation but maybe they're tackling something equally like a equally heavy like a work presentation or maybe they just have to compose an email that's going to you know really have a lot of information in it or like you know something that they have to stand behind

15:46.09
Jennifer Harrison
Yes.

16:05.33
Debra Coleman
How can women just in general out there in the workplace overcome self-doubt and imposter syndrome when putting our ideas out there and our thoughts out there in such a way?

16:16.69
Jennifer Harrison
That is such a great question. um i think in part, it comes down to a mindset shift.

16:23.76
Debra Coleman
Mm-hmm.

16:25.74
Jennifer Harrison
Whenever you are doing something like a dissertation or presenting an idea or giving a presentation or you know, sending me, whatever it might be, usually it hasn't just started with you. It's come from somewhere else. Someone's asked you to be involved in a project or someone has accepted your application you And I think we need to always think back to that point, which is that this didn't come out of the blue. You're not putting yourself in someone else's face. like They've asked you to be in this place. They've accepted you as good enough already or you wouldn't be there.

16:58.68
Jennifer Harrison
And so that should be your starting place. Like, I know I'm good enough. And that doesn't just come from me. It's come from these people around me who I'm going to be talking to or I'm going to be presenting to. You know, you're not in a ah dissertation program just because you wanted to be there. You're also there because somebody approved your application to that program.

17:17.26
Jennifer Harrison
You're not just giving a work presentation because you want to. You're giving it because somebody hired you to that job. They thought you were good enough. And so you should start from a position of I'm good enough and other people have told me so. That's why they want this from me.

17:30.12
Jennifer Harrison
um And then I think it's the other part of that equation in terms of mindset shift is to remember that as human beings, it's very easy for us to criticize. And it's quite hard for us to praise.

17:42.14
Jennifer Harrison
It's like, you know, when you're being trained as a teacher, which I was, um you get taught how to give feedback. Like you have to be taught how to give feedback because it's so easy to read something and find all the mistakes and point out the mistakes and feel like you've done a good job.

17:51.75
Debra Coleman
Yeah.

17:53.97
Jennifer Harrison
And 99.9% of humans, that's what they do when they're faced with someone else's work is they find the flaws, they find the bad stuff and they point it out because it's easy and it makes them feel better about themselves.

18:04.25
Debra Coleman
yeah

18:04.69
Jennifer Harrison
um That doesn't mean that that is all there is to your work. And sometimes you have to actively say, okay, you know thank you for that, but what about the you know what about the good? What do you see in this work that is valuable? what you know what What is here that is worth building on?

18:20.70
Jennifer Harrison
And actually kind of dig for the positives and remind yourself that just because somebody has given you nothing but negative feedback doesn't mean that's all there is or even that that feedback is valid. like you get You get to assess that feedback for yourself.

18:34.35
Debra Coleman
yeah That is such a great take on confidence. I honestly, I'm sitting here amazed. Like I have never heard it put that way before in terms of, look, there's a reason why you're about to present. you know There's a reason why you are are working on dissertation. You got here for a reason, you know, your hard work paid off your experience, whatever it is. So let's start there instead of starting with, do I even but deserve to be here?

19:00.48
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah. And you know, it's a, it's a lesson I think that you learn the hard way sometimes as a woman. um Certainly for me, when I started a business, like way back when I first started having a business, it was so easy to fall into the trap of feeling not good enough for my clients. You know, they're going to be judging me. They're going to think I haven't done a good enough job for them.

19:18.08
Jennifer Harrison
And it took a lot of time working with a coach for to say, hold on a minute, they hired you. Like they already believe you're good. All you have to do is confirm that belief by doing your best job. And i'm like, oh yeah, that makes, that makes all the sense.

19:31.38
Debra Coleman
It really does when you put it that way.

19:34.06
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, and and it works out. Like if you approach a situation from that mindset yourself, you already come across as more confident. And so you don't push as hard. You don't let that doubt creep into the way you speak and act. And, and you know, other people then also treat you that way.

19:49.21
Debra Coleman
who Exactly. And then it's just sort of like you put it out there and it bounces back to you. um

19:56.30
Jennifer Harrison
Yes.

19:56.95
Debra Coleman
and And the exact opposite would be true. if you If you lean into self-doubt and imposter syndrome, then that's possibly the feedback or the response you're going to get is people that don't really think, you know, they kind of doubt your capabilities or your experience or your expertise. Yeah.

20:12.73
Debra Coleman
And now that just like double feeds your insecurity. And now you're thinking, see, I knew it. I knew I wasn't good enough, you know? And it's like, well, wait a minute.

20:20.73
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, exactly. You know, if you if you hand a chapter to your supervisor and you say, like, I know this isn't very good yet, but um I'm, ah you know, I'm just looking for feedback on this, this, this, but I know it's not very good and I'm willing to work harder.

20:22.06
Debra Coleman
Let's reframe that.

20:29.05
Debra Coleman
Hmm.

20:32.39
Jennifer Harrison
They're going to be looking for the, oh, what did she think was not very good? Whereas if you hand a chapter to your supervisor and you say, I'm really proud of this, this, this, it's not finished yet, but these are the really good things I think like you'll be really happy with, then they're going to focus their attention there.

20:35.97
Debra Coleman
Hmm.

20:46.52
Debra Coleman
Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. I like that should be something we should have on repeat when we're getting ready to turn something in. Just that that little blurb right there that you said.

20:54.88
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

20:56.32
Debra Coleman
That's really good because that's a very confident statement right there.

20:59.30
Jennifer Harrison
It is.

20:59.24
Debra Coleman
um

20:59.54
Jennifer Harrison
And I think we're we're kind of programmed to be very self-depreciating sometimes, you know, to kind of forestall criticism by bringing it up ourselves.

21:03.65
Debra Coleman
yes

21:08.26
Jennifer Harrison
ah But it really doesn't work in our favor.

21:10.31
Debra Coleman
I think as women. Now, if you were to put our male colleague and in that same sentence, that would totally track. Like, yeah, they say that kind of stuff all the time.

21:16.47
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

21:17.70
Debra Coleman
Why don't we?

21:18.87
Jennifer Harrison
Oh my goodness. Yeah, I have a very British husband and he has a very deep voice and he has this thing where he will say something and everyone will just nod and smile and be like, oh yes, that's so profound.

21:22.68
Debra Coleman
Hmm.

21:30.38
Jennifer Harrison
And like I knowing him for how many years now, 27 years, I'll be like, wait, that doesn't sound right. Are you sure? And he'll be like, no, I made it up.

21:40.37
Debra Coleman
But by the sheer nature, i don't know if it's systemic or what, we just, yes, but that's true. What he said must be true.

21:47.33
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, he's got the accent. He's got the deep voice. he's He's a male. It sounded convincing. Let's go with it. No, no, I don't think so.

21:52.42
Debra Coleman
Ha! Ha! Ha! Right. If only we were afforded that same luxury in all areas, you know? Oh my goodness.

22:00.21
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

22:00.76
Debra Coleman
Wow. I love it. um Well, if any woman who is listening now is saying to herself, this is interesting because I haven't, I've been toying with the idea of myself going back to school and either continuing on my academic journey or just starting it much like I did later in life.

22:19.11
Debra Coleman
Right. What kind of advice or what maybe one piece? Well, I won't I won't put you in the hot seat too badly, but maybe one or two pieces of advice you'd give to any woman who is considering going back to school um or possibly even tackling a big academic project. Let's kind of open it up a bit, but they feel intimidated. What's some piece of advice for someone who's faced with something like that?

22:41.60
Jennifer Harrison
Oh, I think um top piece of advice is actually to take the time and sit down and work out if that step forward that you're considering is the right step for you. So before you even start worrying about whether you're going to survive it, whether you're going to do well at it, whether you're going to succeed, like first think, is this the right thing for me? Because sometimes a degree isn't.

23:00.09
Jennifer Harrison
Sometimes a degree would be an amazing step for you, but doesn't fit in with the rest of your lifestyle and life plans. Like, I think you have to...

23:06.70
Debra Coleman
i

23:07.54
Jennifer Harrison
um Look at the different options, like sit down and brainstorm what will be the pros, what will be the cons. And those aren't just like cost of the program. Is it well accredited? But it's also things like, are they going to expect me to sit down every Tuesday night? And actually every Tuesday night is when I do my like girls night out and that's really important to me or um are they going to expect me to write a term paper every week and I've always been ah person who hates writing like I think you need to think through your personality your lifestyle your goals what you where you're trying to get to and is all of that compatible with whether you're going to do this degree and if you have that conversation with yourself before you start

23:52.78
Jennifer Harrison
you can go into that degree already with more confidence than you would have done otherwise.

23:58.78
Debra Coleman
Real talk. That is really great advice. I think that's one thing people underestimate, especially in tackling like going back to school or or continuing their education, and especially when they're in a different phase of life. Like, how is this going to fit into your whole 360?

24:13.80
Debra Coleman
You know, look beyond the class time it involved.

24:14.69
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

24:17.20
Debra Coleman
How is it fitting into your life? Yeah.

24:19.99
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, because it's going to be hard.

24:20.71
Debra Coleman
Mm hmm.

24:21.61
Jennifer Harrison
But if you're if you've already thought to yourself, I'm invested in this, this is absolutely 100 percent the best possible move for me in my life and my goals. You can face that hardship and you can face it down and you'll do fine because you'll have that drive and that that belief in it.

24:30.61
Debra Coleman
Yeah.

24:34.35
Debra Coleman
yeah

24:38.14
Jennifer Harrison
If you are just going back to school because it's the expectation or it's got high prestige or like, you know, it's it's the next step that presents itself to you because you saw an ad somewhere, um you're not going to have that resilience to go through with it.

24:50.73
Jennifer Harrison
And it might be that putting that time and energy into something else, like starting a business or, you know, whatever it might be, writing a book might be a better option for you. So it's kind of, you know, it's a bit like buying a house.

25:02.27
Jennifer Harrison
Like, don't just pick the first one you see.

25:03.99
Debra Coleman
Yeah. Yeah. Peruse the menu a bit. Yeah.

25:07.29
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

25:07.99
Debra Coleman
Yeah. Excellent advice. I love that. That is fantastic and a very real and relatable. I think there's many who would say, okay, all right, that makes a lot of sense. Let me just make sure. Cause it's a huge investment, both time, money, resources, blood, sweat, tears, you know, mental, emotional.

25:21.35
Jennifer Harrison
Yes. Yeah.

25:22.55
Debra Coleman
So you really want to go into it with your eyes wide open as much as possible.

25:26.28
Jennifer Harrison
yeah

25:26.25
Debra Coleman
I love that. Excellent. Well, gosh, Dr. Jen, I could honestly, you are so lovely to talk to. I could keep you on the phone so for so much longer, but I don't want to do that to you. But this has just been an incredible conversation. i think you've really helped shed the light on not only just in the war in terms of academia, how we how we tackle maybe big projects or or dissertations, but just how we can carry that into our everyday lives as well and what it means, especially wrapped around confidence and how we advocate for ourselves. So I really have appreciated this conversation.

25:58.08
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah, it's yet been fun.

25:59.82
Debra Coleman
It has. Oh, my. It brings me back to my days when I was still in school. And, um you know, I don't get to work with faculty as much as I used to, but I loved it because faculty, they're just fascinating.

26:03.75
Jennifer Harrison
Yeah.

26:10.37
Debra Coleman
They're humans, too. They're human beings, too.

26:11.86
Jennifer Harrison
yeah

26:12.83
Debra Coleman
um Well, Dr. Jen, if anyone listening is definitely ah interested in learning more about you and what you offer, where can my listeners find you and get in touch?

26:22.27
Jennifer Harrison
So they the best place to find me is on my website, which is www.readwriteperfect.com. um And if they are thinking of doing a degree or they just want to talk more about some of the things they heard today, there is a button on the website where they can book a free 30-minute call and just sit down and have a conversation with me, and I would love to hear from them.

26:41.76
Debra Coleman
Oh, that is so generous. Thank you. i love that. And can I say, I love your website because, you know, it shows you just in these, in these real, you know, this real environment. and And I know having seen you, I'd be, if I was looking at your website for the first time, yes, I think she's going to get it.

26:57.18
Debra Coleman
I want to talk to her.

26:58.65
Jennifer Harrison
Sure, go ahead.

27:00.52
Debra Coleman
That's very relatable. Oh, well, before I let you hop off and continue on with your evening, do you have time for one last bonus question?

27:07.14
Jennifer Harrison
sure go ahead

27:08.25
Debra Coleman
Alrighty. Well, Dr. Jen, when you, when life gets a little crazy for you and you are kind of being pulled in many directions, as we've sort of talked about today, um how do you reset and rebalance?

27:21.59
Jennifer Harrison
You're gonna love the answer to this. I hit things. um I actually, I've been doing boxing classes for a few years now and it is hands down next to therapy.

27:24.23
Debra Coleman
Oh,

27:30.47
Jennifer Harrison
It is the most cathartic, satisfying, like it is the reset button. um I go to a boxing session, I hit the bag or I hit, you know, spar with the other boxers for an hour or so.

27:41.99
Jennifer Harrison
And I come out of there like, yep, I'm good. I've got life again.

27:46.42
Debra Coleman
That is awesome. Oh, I love that. That is so great. Oh, that must feel so gratifying when you connect, you know? and

27:54.65
Jennifer Harrison
it Literally, yeah. And I will add that I'm a terrible boxer. You don't have to be good at something like that to really get something out of it. Yeah.

28:00.97
Debra Coleman
Right. Oh, wow. Therapy. That is the best form of therapy probably. Good for mind, body, and soul. I love that.

28:09.77
Jennifer Harrison
yeah

28:10.26
Debra Coleman
Oh, well, don't don't sneak up on Dr. Jen because you might just get a little bit of her reset and rebalance action, but that's okay. Oh, I love that. And I should add, I will add in the show notes as well, a link to Dr. Jen's website, ah Read Right Perfect, as well as your LinkedIn, um where they can connect with you there as well.

28:29.00
Jennifer Harrison
Absolutely.

28:29.94
Debra Coleman
Wonderful. Excellent. Well, gosh, thank you, Dr. Jen. Again, this has just been a fantastic conversation.

28:36.28
Jennifer Harrison
Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.