Designing Your Career: Finding Fulfillment Beyond the Hustle with Tutti Taygerly

Debra Coleman [00:00:09]:

Hello. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Have A Seat, conversations with women in the workplace podcast where every week, I sit down with women in the workplace who share their expertise and their career journeys with us in the hopes of finding that connection, and Maybe we'll just find out that we're not so different after all.

This week, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with miss Tootie Tagerly, Tootie is an executive leadership coach and professional speaker and author. She supports CEOs and tech leaders to embrace their unique leadership style to achieve professional impact. Previously, she was a design leader at design firms, startups and large companies including Disney and Facebook. She has also written for Business Insider and Fast Company, and her new book, Make Space to lead shows high achievers how to reframe their relationship to work. I think that is really commendable, and I was very excited to sit down with Tutti, to learn more about that whole conversation around how executive leadership who are seeking a bit more out of their role and out of their career path, what that might look like, and how they find and answer some of those questions.

So if that is you in any way, shape, or form, or if you run-in those circles with leadership who are high achievers, who might looking for that something more out of their own career journey, but aren't quite sure what that looks like, this is the conversation for you.

Debra Coleman [00:01:45]:

So without further ado, here is my conversation with miss Thudy Tagorelli, author, executive leadership coach, and speaker. Well, welcome once again, miss Tootie Taggele. I am so excited that we are sitting down today To learn more about your executive leadership coach work and, of course, your book and all the things Tootie, I'm just very excited. Thank you for joining me.

Tutti [00:02:14]:

Thank you so much, Deborah. I'm excited to be here.

Debra Coleman [00:02:16]:

Me too. I think What you do in the coaching world is so interesting and incredibly relevant to today, especially. You know, I kind of view the workplace as pre 2020 and post 2020. So I'm really excited to dive into a little bit of that with you today.

Tutti [00:02:36]:

That sounds great. And, yeah, it everything really has changed, but I do think all changes could be difficult, could be challenging, but it is All opportunities for us to learn and grow, so all good fodder.

Debra Coleman [00:02:49]:

I love that. All opportunities to learn and grow. Love it. Yes. I'm a fan of Learning and always be learning and teachable moments. So that is and that is hopefully what this kind of conversation will fall into. So I'm excited. Well, let's start sort of at the beginning, but you yourself have had a very successful career in the tech space.

Debra Coleman [00:03:15]:

You went from being a design leader to becoming your own boss, so to speak. You are an entrepreneur, an author, a speaker. And so and as long with, of course, all of all that, you are an executive leadership coach, But you specialize. You niched down a bit. Did you feel there was something missing in the coaching world That made you want to niche down into this and serve this particular segment of the community?

Tutti [00:03:46]:

Absolutely. So I think there's a couple of different ways to to talk about that that answer. And I would say that in some ways, I've niched down and in other ways, I've Banded and and niched up completely. And I think, all of this is related to some parts of of my You see? I I was raised by an Asian tiger mom. And like many people that I I work with, I was raised to hustle, to work hard, to Achieve to really go go go go go as fast as possible to reach all those goals, and I did that for a really long time. I was a good girl, a good student, liked to liked to know what the rules of the game are so I could succeed and win, and I spent 22 years climbing that that career ladder. So in a way, That was a huge part of me that just wanted to go go go and hustle. And what I've been spending a lot of the last, 4, 5 years doing is realizing that there is a way to hustle and do that, but there's also a way to really build in longer term sustainable success.

Tutti [00:04:57]:

And I believe that's what we all want. There can be periods of our life where we go harder, maybe twenties and And times like that or maybe other periods of life when kids go off to college if there's parents listening here, but then there's other periods of our life which sometimes as you alluded to, Maybe post 2020 where other things become a little bit more important. So when it's sustainable success, yes, There is an act of just getting things done and being a high achiever, but it is balanced against everything else. So when we talk about segments or niches of people, I really work with a lot of high achievers Who are realizing that there is something more that's needed in their life that will fulfill them in some way more than just the pure act of hustling

Debra Coleman [00:05:48]:

Very well put. Because as you were saying that, I was thinking that there seems to be a A turn away from the hustle culture and more into what you would what you described, But I need meaning behind what I'm doing. I need to know that what I'm doing is making a difference. Is that sort of the climate you're you're experiencing out there?

Tutti [00:06:10]:

I hope so. I mean, it's a little hard. Right? Because as an executive coach, I'm I'm somewhat self selecting. People come to me because they hear this message and they believe that there is something more with more meaning, and, these are the groups of people that I I speak to. I do believe that this is on trend because I also write for a number of publications, including Harvard Business Review and Fast Company, and they have a much broader view of the the landscape. And they have been seeing, an uptick of Leadership and interest in in these types of articles. So I do believe it's accurate from both ways, but I wanna be very cognizant that I've worked at scale in large companies to see the trends. And right now as an entrepreneur, I very much have a particular lens.

Debra Coleman [00:06:57]:

That's fantastic. That's great. You seem to really have, like, a pulse of what's going on. Did it help that you came from, the tech space? And that I'm sure has its own you know, it's its own world. And now as you coach executive leaders Along their career journey, do you find that that background has really played a part in your coaching business today?

Tutti [00:07:21]:

Absolutely. I believe that all of us as leaders, all aspects and experiences and facets of our identity that we've We've gone through, whether it's as far back as lineage and how we were raised. But even back through all of our earlier jobs, All of these experiences are are parts of us and help make us who we are. So when I talk about my philosophy of how I coach and what I help People with I think there's 2 things that really stand out from from my tech career. The first is that I coach as a designer. That was my 1st career. That was my schooling at Stanford. That was my training.

Tutti [00:07:59]:

And when I talk about coaching as a designer, it's It's really helping people envision what is that future life that's a blend of Personal and professional, what is the most fulfilling version of a career in life that they want to have? And for most of the people I work with, it really is. What's the meaning behind it? What really matters? What is the balance that you want? Or what is the big Audacious goal that you wanna achieve when you're starting your own company. It's really bringing that to life, which is what I did with my teams as a designer in Silicon Valley. You needed to really know what is the product that you're creating and how do people experience it. So a lot of the way I coach is really Shifting that thinking into you as an individual leader. So it's starting with that really big, what's the vision and dream of what you want? Understanding your goals, it helps to define goals, but what's most important is understanding the why behind the goals. And then moving on down the framework, it's also realizing mindset. So many smart, high achieving people, We can get in our own ways more than anything else.

Tutti [00:09:12]:

And if we practice tools to shift mindset, that can unlock a lot of things. And then the final facet of this, which is part of being a designer but also part of the inherent iterative experimental nature of releasing products in Silicon Valley Is creating a framework of actions and experimentation so that you try to experiment And iterate your way towards being that leader that you wanna be, towards creating that big vision of life that you wanna be. Because as I mentioned in the beginning, Yeah. A whole bunch of stuff's gonna happen. We can't control or know necessarily what the socioeconomic trends are gonna be. There's gonna be personal challenges. There's gonna be professional challenges, and they're all a learning opportunity.

Debra Coleman [00:09:58]:

Fantastic. And I love that you tied that all together. And what would you say then are Maybe the top of mind for leaders today that are looking for finding that goal or finding that That mission they wanna accomplish, is it, like, a a people and talent issue? Is it, is it something that they just need to help build and cultivate a more creative process with their teams? Is there an area that's Leaderships tend to be a little challenging find a little challenging right now that you've noticed?

Tutti [00:10:36]:

I think a lot of it depends on Context, industry, where you wanna go. So something that I've developed with, with a coleader friend of mine, Jim Herman, is a leadership model that we call the North Star Leadership Model. So you can imagine in the middle is you Because leadership also always starts with you. And part of it is knowing at for at this particular moment in time, what are your values? What do you really care about? For this particular year or even season, like a 3 month season quarter of your life, what's the most important? What are your strengths? What are the areas you need to grow in? That level of self awareness and knowing what you're working on, that's the center of the north star model that leadership with me. But around it are 3 axes that I find, irrelevant for most people. One is the projects that you're working on, just the nature and the meatiness of the work that you do. And this could be a particular project you're sign. It could be a sign.

Tutti [00:11:41]:

Passion projects such as starting a podcast, perhaps. It's the it's the depth of the project work that you do. Another facet is the people around you. It's the relationships. It's the partnership. It's the ways that you work with other people because we can always do more with other people that we can we that we can do alone. And then the last part of this this North Star Leadership Model is what is the bigger thing you're a part What is the bigger community or organization or mandate that you're a part of? It could be your team. It could be your discipline area.

Tutti [00:12:16]:

If you're working for a smaller start up, it could be your entire company. It could be a, a group, say, of, let's say, Filipinas at the company. Whatever this bigger community that you're at, that's what this community and org level is. So when you're starting to look for opportunities and for what matters to you, it might just be using this access knowing that you're always there in the middle. But what else might I wanna put attention on right now? Is it a project? Is it people? Or is it something that's gonna benefit the greater community in org as a whole? So that's the way that I kinda tell people that, yes, it's contextual. It depends, but here's a model and a framework to help you think about where you might wanna get started.

Debra Coleman [00:13:00]:

I love that framework. It is so clear. And, of course, the name, North Star Leadership Model, the way you explained that is exactly like finding your North star and then executing from there. Beautifully put. Do you find though that maybe leaders from diverse backgrounds I find their challenges to be a bit different in some respects or not really?

Tutti [00:13:26]:

Absolutely. I think there's a lot of things that are happening here and we are all aware that there is bias, conscious and unconscious, in the workplace. And when we're talking about diverse leaders, there's a number of different facets and aspects to go on. If we start to look at the External signs of diversity, it could be it's likely gender and race because that's what stands out first when you look at someone. And here's the thing. We are all biased. When we meet someone for the very first time, we look at them. We look at their gender.

Tutti [00:14:03]:

We look at their race. We look at how they're dressed. We look at their Zoom backgrounds if we're meeting them virtually, And we make snap judgments. This is how we process information and data around the world, and we do this because it's We're we're stretched. We're starved with time. So I just wanna put that out there that we all have unconscious bias because these are survival mechanisms that help us get Through our our day, they're based on pattern matching, which is often based on stereotypes. So I'll put that that's out there. I think what's really important when working with, let's say, someone who is of a different race or a different gender than what's normal In this particular industry, then the norm in this industry that you're in is that there starts to be certain expectations about What norms make people successful or unsuccessful? And people who don't fit those norms may be Penalized in some way whether conscious or subconscious.

Tutti [00:15:11]:

So I think what's really important for diverse leaders is to realize that These unconscious biases exist. I'll just to get more specific because sometimes it's hard to work with, The generic things that I'm talking about, I'll just give you, an example. A typical unconscious bias in the corporate world is that Traits in a woman may be called aggressive, but those very same traits may be called assertive in a man. I think we've heard and all known about this. What really helps leaders is knowing what the unconscious biases are, talking about them pretty openly. And in that way, knowing that some of this is not your fault. It's simply the system we exist in. And then the way that I work with a lot of my clients is like, alright.

Tutti [00:16:03]:

If we know that this is the system, here's ways that you may wanna put your energy towards changing the system, But here's other ways where you can work as an individual knowing that these unconscious biases exist to transform the way that You act so that people will respond to you differently. And it's really you can work on it on both angles, but the biggest thing is knowing that So much of it is not actually your fault. It's simply the system. There's so much more that I could go on, but I, I'll go on I'll say one other thing related to this is that I mean, I think an inherent desire that Everybody wants is to belong in some way, is to fit in. And in a way, belonging kind of is like, I wanna be part of the majority. And I believe that all of us in some way or other have felt like we're the other. And we might feel like we're the other based on race and gender, but we might also feel like we're the other based on things that you can't see on the outside. Maybe it's, sexual identity.

Tutti [00:17:13]:

Maybe it's neurodiversity. Maybe it's from, you know, having been in the military or something else. And so I do believe that very, very human in In leadership, in belonging, in in in the corporate world is that many so many of us feel like we're the other. Race and gender are the first Obvious things to look at and they've been given a lot of very much needed attention. And when I work with Senior leaders and CEOs who are establishing culture in their company, it's also realizing that there's gonna be this push Pull between well, these are the norms and standards that we work on as a company, culture, but also recognizing that we want Diversity of thought and diversity of perspectives, and how do you have both of those at once While making everyone feel like they belong and they have an opinion. I think that's the that's the crux of that, like, The most beautiful problem to solve with company and corporate cultures. There was so much in there. Sorry, Deb.

Tutti [00:18:17]:

Like, this is I could talk about this forever.

Debra Coleman [00:18:19]:

I was just gonna say, you know what? Please continue. I think that do not apologize. You are putting it very clearly and beautifully. It really, It's bringing a lot of additional questions to mind. So you're right. This is a big topic that we could definitely dive more into. But I think my 1st knee jerk question to that, regarding the diversity of thought and perspectives. So we understand as leadership or members of our leadership team are asking themselves these questions, trying to move in their area and their space, with all of this behind them, the diversity of thought and coming in to it looking through things with a different lens possibly.

Debra Coleman [00:19:07]:

How does that now translate down to their ICs, to their individual contributors, to their teams that report up to them. How can they well, I don't know continue, but maybe pass along or pay it pay it forward This awakening or this knowledge base that they're gaining to help their teams also execute in that in that space as well. I I know I'm not probably asking that correctly, but how do we let that good thinking and that good framework come down and and filter into the other areas.

Tutti [00:19:41]:

So this may be a little bit of a different answer. Mhmm. Because I am a fierce and passionate defender of, diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, Yet I believe that a leader's job is to do what's best For the direction of the company, the company's mission, and the company's bottom line. So if you are working for A company that values diversity of perspective, which I think is a must given for companies that are Trying to be more innovative, being more creative, find different solutions to their business problem, Then it's easy to have this atmosphere in your group and your team because what it's what's valued at your company. It's what should be built into the products, the services they that you do. And if that is the case, then it becomes a lot easier to have that be the culture and the ethos of how you run your team, where We're simply not encouraging diversity because it's a check mark, because it's what looks good, it's what it's what's the trend of what's happening right now, Or even because it's the right thing to do, all of those are really hard to push against the nature of what we're doing in in a corporation, which is Helping make money for the stockholders and for the business while really staying on mission. So if true diversity and innovation and a a culture of innovation is built into a company, Then all the rest of the things are easy because it's aligned. If it's not, that becomes a lot harder and that could be a whole another conversation.

Tutti [00:21:28]:

But I do believe that Circling back to my original point, it's about sustainable success. The success matters, and the way that you make it And, well, to have diversity of thought is to make sure that all of this is built into the, to match the the economic goals and the mission driven goals of the company

Debra Coleman [00:21:50]:

and the team. That's true. Sustainable success. And, yes, that's right. Keeping the company mission, If it matches it for the lines with this way of thinking, then executing that way as a leader Will prove to be a bit smoother maybe and easier? Okay. Understood. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the experience for everyone, but, Hopefully, we're getting there. We're with with coaches like yourself, maybe that needle will start moving When they're between if there is a disconnect between leadership teams and their, you know, direct reports.

Tutti [00:22:26]:

And I do believe that the needle is moving. It may seem slow. It may seem like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but I given what I see and given what Younger workers coming out of college are looking for and demanding. The needle is moving. It's, You know, as with most things in life, it's not moving as fast as we would like it to.

Debra Coleman [00:22:50]:

Mhmm. But the awareness is there. Would you say that's fair? Okay. Yeah. I agree. I think the generations coming in behind us are much more vocal and, dare I say, a bit more demanding in I say that word lightly. I don't mean it in a negative, you know, in your face way, But they know what they want for the most part, and they know what they're looking for in a company's objectives, goals, mission statements. And if they're not walking the walk and talking the talk, I think that they will either look elsewhere or ask those questions.

Tutti [00:23:26]:

I completely agree. Yeah. I mean, this is all a change for the better.

Debra Coleman [00:23:30]:

Yes. For the better. Exactly. Well and that's why we have wonderful coaches like you to help our leadership teams Navigate these waters because, you know, I mean, yes, they are our leaders and they are, you know, Sending us into the future and and helping sustain, you know, this company, but they need help too. You know? And we shouldn't Put that heavy expectation on them that they're automatically gonna be this magical, you know, crystal clear cutout leader that knows all the answers and that never fails and trips up. You know, in terms of this new awakening we're entering into, you know, representing and, leading diverse teams and Being more inclusive and transparent, you know, this whole new post 2020 movement.

Tutti [00:24:15]:

Absolutely. And as with that North Star leadership model that I Jared, it really is all leadership starts with you. So as an individual contributor, as a manager, as anyone in a company, There is so much that you can do as an individual, and a lot of, the techniques and stories and coaching tips that I share are are in my book, Make Space to Lead, which is really balancing both of the sides of sustainable How to make the space to figure out what really matters to you and what really matters to the companies you work in. And also, yeah, It's okay to want things and want success. We all want that. It's what's the right balance for you.

Debra Coleman [00:24:59]:

Love that. What's the right balance for you? And that north star, I I love that, symbolism that that bring that conjures up. And I'm so glad you mentioned your book, Make Space to Lead, Break patterns to find flow and focus on what matters. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Tutti [00:25:15]:

A lot of the book is my my Story of leaving the corporate world, and it runs through a number of different exercises of balancing out how do you do all the things you want, which is Heading towards all the goals and achievements that you want, how do you balance that out with understanding Relationships, emotions, being creative, having the innovation, making that spaciousness so that when you get all the things that you want, It actually feels good, and you're not simply looking for the next milestone, next goal to to move towards.

Debra Coleman [00:25:50]:

Brilliant. Oh, I love that. Thank you for giving us a little A little behind the scenes curtain of that of your book. I appreciate that. I, of course, will have a link to that in the show notes, as well as links to where listeners can find more about you and connect with you.

Tutti [00:26:06]:

Absolutely. I have a website which is tutityteagerly.com, t u t t I t a y g e r l y. And probably the easiest way to to Follow me is to find me on LinkedIn and follow me. I share a lot of content about leadership, about tech, about innovation, creativity, All the things.

Debra Coleman [00:26:30]:

Oh, I love it. I love it. And I I freaking appreciate the LinkedIn reference. That's my, Social media avenue of choice as well, so thank you for that. Well, before I let you hop off, miss Titty, do you have a time for a one Silly bonus question.

Tutti [00:26:45]:

Sure.

Debra Coleman [00:26:46]:

Okay. Just a way for us to get to know you better. What I learned about you, I believe, is that you enjoy catching the next wave. I believe surfing might be an enjoyable pastime for you. Wonderful. Love that. I am a California girl myself, so I get that. Aside from that, though, When life gets a little much and you recognize that you need to reset and rebalance, are there any other activities you enjoy doing to kinda help Bring you back to center.

Tutti [00:27:16]:

Yeah. So a lot of my recent practices are very, very spiritual, and I've been doing a lot of Shamanic work and work into you can call it meditation or seeing what's happening in subconscious, unconscious realms. So a lot of what's been happening helping me is having a daily meditation practice, as well as working with different shamanic teachers to access more of my unconscious mind and intuition. Both of those have been really helpful in addition to the surfing.

Debra Coleman [00:27:49]:

Oh, I love that. And I can kinda see the connection between the 2, because surfing is very much in touch with nature, and so the other practice is more getting in touch with yourself. So I can see the where they intersect. Tootie, once again, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to sit down with us and to help us learn a little bit more about your executive leadership coaching services and what it takes to be a leader in today's new workspace.

Tutti [00:28:16]:

Absolutely. I'm so glad that I was able to be on and really chat for some of your listeners.

Debra Coleman [00:28:23]:

And that wraps up my conversation with miss Tudi Tagerly. Fascinating stuff. Really good information. I hope you had your notepads ready because Tootie was really sharing some very insightful knowledge there in terms of what it takes for an a and a a high achieving executive leader to reach their own personal goals and to realize where it all begins and where it all starts. Love that. I also really appreciate that we dove a little bit Into diversity of thought and diversity in and inclusion initiatives. That was very fascinating. Again, another incredibly relevant topic, especially in today's workspace.

Debra Coleman [00:29:02]:

So once again, I want to thank Tootie for taking time Out of her schedule to have a seat with us and have this conversation, this much needed and very relevant conversation. As always, You can find ways to connect with Tootie in the show notes. So I'd highly encourage you to check out the show notes and find ways to connect with Tootie and to learn more about her executive leadership coaching and her book, Make Space to Lead. As always, I like to leave the show with a quote, and this week's quote is brought to us none other then by miss Tootie herself, and it goes like this. I work with high achievers who are realizing that there is something more that is needed in their life that will fulfill them in some way more than just the act of hustling and achievement. I love that. I love more than just hustling and achievement. That, again, incredibly topical right now.

Debra Coleman [00:29:53]:

Incredibly topical. I don't think you have to be a high achieving leader to want to find more to your career life that is outside of always being on the hustle. So I think that applies to all of us, which is why I really chose that quote. I thought it was very profound. As always, my wonderful listeners, you will also find a link to my website in the show notes where you will find a whole library of conversations just like these. So feel free to peruse and see if there's another topic or guest that sparks your interest, and hit that big play button and Pop in those earbuds and join in on the conversation. As always, my lovely listeners, thank you so much for your support And your followship, I just I'm it it really brings such joy to me every week when I see that the are appreciated and listened to and that there are some, takeaways. I love that you share that with me as well.

Debra Coleman [00:30:48]:

So once again, thank you. You make all of this worth it. Alrighty. Well, until next time. You know the drill. Stay safe, be well, and remember, keep having those conversations.