Talk Back, Speak Up: Gen Z, Communication & the Future of Work with Jenna Rogers

00:01.07

Debra Coleman

All right. Well, welcome back to and another episode of Have a Seat, Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. I am your host, Deb Coleman. i Friends, so excited to join um to join Jenna Rogers today in this conversation. She is the founder of Career Civility.

00:17.76

Debra Coleman

So excited because we are going to talk a little bit about Gen Z and communication in the workplace. And I just, you know me, communication is my jam. Love it as a podcaster. But ah Jenna was dropping some golden bombs before I hit record um that we're going to get to. So thank you so much, Jenna, for joining me this morning. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you.

00:36.66

Jenna

Of course, and thank you for making the space to have the conversation.

00:39.86

Debra Coleman

Oh, you are more than welcome. Absolutely. So important, I think, you know, for women in the workplace of all generations, really, you know, we need to stick together and learn from each other.

00:46.56

Jenna

yeah

00:48.36

Debra Coleman

So I appreciate you sharing your insights on these topics.

00:52.26

Jenna

Here to help.

00:52.37

Debra Coleman

ah Well, absolutely. So to get us started, let's start with sort of the elephant in the room, communication, your expertise, I should say. um So one of the areas you specialize in is helping Gen Z women specifically, you know, communicate more effectively at work.

01:10.64

Jenna

Yep.

01:11.21

Debra Coleman

What are some common challenges you see in how they're navigating workplace conversations and communication?

01:17.59

Jenna

Yeah. And I think that the main problem is that no one really invests time in business or professional communication, right?

01:27.89

Jenna

So that's where there's communication every facet of life, right?

01:28.00

Debra Coleman

Amen. Amen.

01:31.74

Jenna

You know, there's listening, there's nonverbal communication, there's relationship communication. i always focus on interpersonal communication in the workplace because ah you know every person in the workplace, but primarily young generations, you know we have to um recognize that they're not being taught this in school. right like They might be taught how to write APA or MLA citations or how to write like a five-paragraph essay.

01:55.92

Jenna

um you know There's even support writing a resume or a cover letter, but not necessarily how to write an effective email or how to organize a meeting.

01:55.97

Debra Coleman

moving

02:03.51

Jenna

right um so We're learning through osmosis. ah We're lucky if we have a really great mentor to sit us down and help us proofread our emails or practice speeches with us or running a meeting, but we don't really have that.

02:18.60

Jenna

And so the younger generations are learning through osmosis and older generations also probably aren't great at communicating in the workplace. So we need to be very thoughtful and intentional about not only what we expect of people in the workplace in terms of their communication styles, both internally and externally, um but then also we have to be intentional on how we're teaching other people as well.

02:39.84

Debra Coleman

So true. And I know you're a bit advocate advocate for that soft skill, you communication.

02:44.29

Jenna

Mm-hmm.

02:44.72

Debra Coleman

And I know you feel like it's almost a lost art out there, but it shouldn't be. It should still be a staple. um Yeah.

02:50.78

Jenna

Yeah, and it's almost like in business, when dollar signs are involved, that's an excuse to for good communication to go out the window, right?

02:59.70

Debra Coleman

Okay.

02:59.80

Jenna

and Which is inexcusable. And it's also the opposite, right? Like when dollar signs are involved and when dollar sides are involved and we need to you know focus on the bottom line, it's like you should almost double down on your communication skills because that's going to make or break culture.

03:14.81

Jenna

That's going to make or break collaboration, productivity, you name it.

03:18.57

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm. So true. Absolutely. And there's so many and but different ways to communicate. Like you said, there's emails, there's, you know, verbal, there's nonverbal even. And then now in our and our virtual hybrid world, there's communicating across monitor screens.

03:26.80

Jenna

Yep.

03:30.50

Debra Coleman

So there's a lot of avenues, I'm sure, to that.

03:30.94

Jenna

Yep.

03:34.08

Debra Coleman

That word communication can mean a lot now in these days.

03:36.38

Jenna

Exactly.

03:37.24

Debra Coleman

Yeah.

03:37.37

Jenna

Yeah.

03:37.35

Debra Coleman

Yeah.

03:37.53

Jenna

And I have one of the, um, stats that I've been really speaking to and teaching on is 74% of business communication is done via email.

03:48.41

Debra Coleman

Wow.

03:48.53

Jenna

Like that's, yeah, it is very significant.

03:48.83

Debra Coleman

Yeah.

03:51.11

Jenna

And if you think about it, like my, ah Back in the quote unquote back in the day, just kidding. But when i started my career, I started in sales, right? And gone are the days where you are having a handshake over a dinner to close a deal, right?

04:05.32

Jenna

Like it's all via email.

04:05.29

Debra Coleman

and

04:06.68

Jenna

You send ah PDF or DocuSign that needs to get signed in order to move business forward.

04:12.62

Debra Coleman

yeah

04:12.65

Jenna

ah So when 74% of business is done via email and pretty imperative business, right? You have to learn how to write effective emails, right?

04:21.97

Debra Coleman

So true. yeah That's a great point. That is a great point. Things can be made or or broke by a miscommunication like that, via email even. Yeah.

04:30.85

Jenna

Exactly.

04:31.81

Debra Coleman

Yeah. Wow. So important. I could talk about this forever because that is my thing. Love it. And I love that you're sort of communicating that to the the you know your peers and colleagues as well. That's so important, I think, ah for a generation that was raised, maybe not so much on the art of communicating like the, quote, good old-fashioned way. But, you know, there's a lot of ways to do that. So,

04:51.94

Debra Coleman

Well, speaking of generational communication it and and and work, um let's dip into that a little bit and do a little generational wisdom check.

04:53.58

Jenna

Mm-hmm.

05:00.17

Debra Coleman

um So there's often ah disconnect between more seasoned professionals and younger women entering the world. Let's focus on the women. We'll niche down a bit.

05:11.64

Debra Coleman

um Do you have any advice or for for bridging that gap and encouraging mentorship instead of misunderstanding?

05:20.33

Jenna

Absolutely. And that's one thing. It's a really hot topic right now, intergenerational communication.

05:24.04

Debra Coleman

yeah

05:25.09

Jenna

I think that the older generation is noticing like this you know, the younger generation, as there always is, there's always a disconnect, right? Like this is nothing new. However, because we have four generations working in the workplace and we're working to your point across the hybrid facet, it's really showcasing those ah challenges, right? Because when everyone was in the office, I think that and was a little bit easier to learn through osmosis or watch someone, you know, there's a lot of observation, you can pull someone aside.

05:54.26

Jenna

But when you're working behind computer screens, I think it provides an added layer of challenge. So my one recommendation would be to expand your understanding of different generations' experiences within the workplace.

05:59.20

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

06:06.53

Jenna

Again, this is a tale as old as time, but you know younger individuals are like, oh, well, they're dinosaurs. They don't like to change. They don't know any better. And then the older generation is like, well, they don't know anything, right? They're too green. They're babies. They haven't been around the block enough to really... And I think that that negates respect from both ends of the spectrum, right? So when I'm doing these workshops with organizations, I'm always trying to bring awareness to the context of what each generation has experienced in the workplace, right?

06:34.49

Jenna

um Boomers experience this like stable, linear climb up the corporate ladder, and that's... really what they know. So when they see resumes that have 12 different jobs before you know the age of 40, that's perplexing for them.

06:49.19

Debra Coleman

and here

06:50.08

Jenna

um In the same breath, like boomers, yes, they had that like stable linear climb up the corporate ladder, but they've also experienced so many ebbs and flows within the market. Like I think there's been around seven recessions, some longer than others that they've experienced.

07:03.46

Debra Coleman

wow

07:05.17

Jenna

So they've really been around the block a few times and they have the like perspective and the resilience to get through those hard times that maybe the younger generations need a little bit of, right?

07:14.66

Debra Coleman

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. yep

07:15.65

Jenna

we had You mentioned you know from the world of Gen X, I think Gen X is my favorite generation because they they were the first ones to really shake things up. right like

07:26.28

Debra Coleman

yeah

07:26.58

Jenna

The women women stayed in the workplace, but then also the dads were like, hey, i'm going to leave early and go coach T-ball today.

07:32.79

Debra Coleman

know

07:32.86

Jenna

right and so That was a big shakeup. and Because of that, they almost had to double down and work even harder to prove but that women deserved and earned to be in the workplace, but that also men... could be fathers first, right?

07:45.31

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm.

07:45.34

Jenna

um So that was kind of the first experience of distrust of big corporate. um Again, they really had to balance work-life balance. So I think that meant that they worked even harder. So a lot of people think that Gen X, you know, they don't care about relationships. They just want you to improve your work, yada, yada.

08:03.10

Jenna

um But that's because that's what they had to do in order to pave the way for us millennials. And now I say us millennials, if I'm a millennial. um For millennials and Gen X, you know, to really have

08:09.21

Debra Coleman

and

08:13.07

Jenna

not only work-life balance, millennials took it one step further and they want culture, right?

08:16.70

Debra Coleman

Thank you.

08:16.76

Jenna

So they really want a culture that's supportive of them as a person. um they will, you know, once if they find an organization that has really strong culture, and that culture is shaken up, whether it's a, you know, their manager leaving or a reduction in force or a reorganization, they will then try to find another or company that has the culture that they like.

08:37.37

Jenna

And then Gen Z took it one step further. And they're like, well, yes, culture, but also like, you need to be mission driven, right? Like this needs to support me as a human. So you can see the evolution of different generations and their experience of the workplace.

08:50.36

Jenna

And then you have Gen Z with learning these new skills, right? Like but the marketplace is totally different. How people buy is totally different. How people learn is very different. So what they know, they know a lot of, you know, new age skills and new age technology that could help boomers and Gen X

09:01.28

Debra Coleman

you

09:07.68

Jenna

innovate, get more creative, be a little bit more efficient. So you need to have both sides of the spectrum, but you also need to learn how to work together. And I do think communication is like that highway, right, of information translation.

09:20.59

Debra Coleman

Oh, wow. Yes. Oh, that was, that was like the perfect, I mean, I was like following you along perfectly. Like you really have tapped into the needs of each generation and how they view the workplace and how they view getting things done, like what work means to them.

09:36.82

Debra Coleman

Wow.

09:37.16

Jenna

Yes.

09:38.05

Debra Coleman

Wow. That is so true. And so also what I was thinking about when you were speaking just now is if I was someone in a position of leadership, this would be super important for me because i am probably leading a team that is multi-generational.

09:51.75

Debra Coleman

So is there some sort of like expectation or pressure, for lack of a better word, on leadership to understand exactly what you just referenced?

09:51.79

Jenna

Yes.

09:59.03

Jenna

I think so. And yet I think that leadership is too busy to really sit down and figure out how to do it. right And I think that's where communication kind of gets a a bad rap.

10:05.94

Debra Coleman

um Yeah.

10:09.24

Jenna

It's like a soft skill. right It's something that people know that they need to work on, but how do you actually do it? Does it actually have a return on investment? Yada, yada. right

10:17.35

Debra Coleman

Right.

10:17.46

Jenna

And so I think that it's not until ah ah team has a glaring issue, whether it's you know falling way behind their business goals and objectives or some personnel challenges that that's when they realize it's communication that they need to work on.

10:33.58

Jenna

um so I do think that this needs to be something that is put up front in terms of, you know, when people get promoted into management or They get hired into a new role, like really learning how the company communicates. What's the you know company communication culture?

10:46.79

Jenna

What's the individual team communication culture? How do people best like to be communicated with? um i think that those are all important things to understand before challenges arise.

10:56.46

Debra Coleman

Mm hmm. Gosh, yeah, absolutely. Before the challenges arise. Exactly. Wow. And I mean, let's face it, even within leadership, you have multigenerational, you know, pressures as well.

11:08.13

Debra Coleman

So it's ah it's real. And it's I think taking like kind of lifting the rock and really looking at what's underneath and exposing and being brave and having these types of conversations, I think, is a step in the right direction because it shows like awareness, you know.

11:20.53

Jenna

Absolutely. that That awareness, that understanding that kind of goes back to like my first tip of like, hey, if you're working with people of different generations or, you know, you're stepping into the, you know, the corporate world for the first time, like taking a step back and really honing in on your listening skills, right?

11:33.71

Jenna

Like listen to understand, observe, you will then get a feel for the culture of the organization, right?

11:39.08

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm.

11:39.53

Jenna

um And I think the younger generations have a hard time marrying the two. Like, how do you step into this organization and understand the culture? But then how do you also speak up and bring your own voice and speak authentically? Right. And I think that that's where it's hard to find your...

11:55.01

Jenna

your footing, if you will, when it comes to communicating a professional setting, because you're the lowest on the totem pole, you're trying to prove yourself. And yet, especially with Gen Z, like they value expression and authenticity.

12:06.60

Jenna

So when they bring that to the table, older generations see that as unprofessional, or they see it as a threat.

12:11.39

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm.

12:13.06

Jenna

So how do you how do you work with the two, where one values authenticity and self-expression, and the other sees it as unprofessional?

12:21.23

Debra Coleman

Yeah, exactly exactly. And how do you bridge that gap?

12:24.50

Jenna

Yes.

12:24.51

Debra Coleman

You know, how do you?

12:24.76

Jenna

Hmm.

12:25.24

Debra Coleman

Yeah, absolutely. It's real. It's very real. I know sometimes we use, we toss out those like generational labels, you know, but they really, they're real, you know, and they exist and they can make a lot.

12:32.89

Jenna

yes

12:34.98

Debra Coleman

So what would you tell um a young woman if if they come to you and say, but Jenna, I hear you. I just, I still don't feel like my voice is being heard or respected maybe because of my age. I feel like there's some sort of bias there.

12:47.73

Debra Coleman

Do you have, what do you tell clients maybe who come to you with that concern or challenge? Yeah.

12:51.48

Jenna

Absolutely. So when they feel like their voice isn't being heard, i have to give them, obviously, you know compassion and understanding because we've all been there, right?

13:02.48

Jenna

like We've all been there. We could all tell stories about it.

13:04.88

Debra Coleman

yeah

13:05.40

Jenna

So I think recognizing that and not being like, well, you know get it together. Everyone has to go through this. So just even approaching them with like um compassion and understanding is so like, yep, we've all been there.

13:15.85

Jenna

Here's how you get through it. And one of the recommendations that I always provide in a professional setting is to relate your ideas back to results or back to the business goals and objectives.

13:26.64

Jenna

So for example, if Gen Z sees a new way to do things or a more efficient way, or maybe they want to integrate you know another marketing channel or communication channel, whatever it may be.

13:26.67

Debra Coleman

Thank you.

13:35.81

Jenna

um Or let's use that and as an example, whatever that may be, they have a new idea, they want to bring it to the table, but maybe they've been shut down or overlooked or not listened to in meetings before, right?

13:46.53

Jenna

So they can take that idea and then tie it back to the goals of the business. So like, here's an idea that I have about a new marketing channel that we can explore. The reason that I think that this will be valuable is because this year we want to increase our reach to XYZ number of new consumers, by exploring this new channel, we can help us get to that goal.

14:05.83

Jenna

Right? So you take, you have to speak in terms of business, right?

14:06.76

Debra Coleman

Okay.

14:09.60

Jenna

So understand what your manager would care about, understand what the team would care about. Every business has, you know, annual goals or monthly goals that they want to hit. So make sure that when you have your ideas, you're relating it back to the business.

14:21.65

Jenna

um Another example that I could use is maybe let's get a little bit more tactical here. um Okay, so let's say I had a message the other day of someone who's showing up late to work every day.

14:34.78

Jenna

And this is a, I should also give the context of like, it's a Gen X manager with a Gen Z employee. And so the Gen Z employee is showing up late every day. And that also is setting the precedent for other people showing up late.

14:48.02

Jenna

So when you have these situations, what I recommended to the manager is one, start documenting it, right? Like make sure that you have timestamps, make sure that you have dates, make sure that you're documenting this. So that way you can also come prepared with data um A lot of times in the workplace, that is the best thing to do is document everything that's happening.

15:07.57

Debra Coleman

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

15:07.74

Jenna

um But then when you are going to that person who's late, talk about the ah consequences of showing up late, right? Like we're not able to start this meeting. This client doesn't see the deliverables on time, which then means that we're not, you know, that they're not spending as much money with us, which then means that like you're not getting paid as much as you could if we were able to start, you know, an hour earlier that day.

15:29.86

Jenna

um That was a unique situation, but always relate it back to the goals and how that impacts them. It's the who, what, um it's a so what, who cares.

15:38.68

Debra Coleman

ah So what? Who cares?

15:40.20

Jenna

Yeah.

15:41.02

Debra Coleman

Wow. And it's it's kind of like giving them an eagle's eye view. This is this if a like a domino. If this is what happens, then this is what happens as a result of that. i I think that where workers get frustrated is is they're kind of siloed and they're not brought into, well, why are you wagging your finger in my face and telling me to be on time?

15:57.07

Jenna

Oh, yes.

15:58.42

Debra Coleman

No, let me show you the results of why you're what happens when you're not on time. Like clue me in, like bring me into the conversation so I can have a more respect for that so-called policy. You know what i'm saying?

16:08.29

Jenna

exactly Exactly. And that's transparency was a big buzzword, you know, back with the pandemic and everything.

16:11.91

Debra Coleman

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah

16:13.64

Jenna

And that's all it is. It's just like, why are we doing this? Like the so what, who cares, you know, and if you can get your employees to care about why you have these policies, um it's going to go a lot further than just trying to strong arm and enforce them.

16:17.54

Debra Coleman

and

16:26.69

Debra Coleman

Yes, yes. Gosh, good advice. My gosh, Jenna. Wow. Loving this. Okay, I know we're coming up on time, and um i just I just have a one or two more questions for you, and then we'll we'll wrap.

16:38.34

Debra Coleman

But if you could speak to someone who's listening right now. So we're going to put a little avatar out there. So she is a young lady. um it's At the time of this recording, it's possibly the end of a college semester, possibly the end of someone's college career, and they're looking to start a new role probably in the summer or as we head into fall.

16:52.00

Jenna

Yeah.

16:57.52

Debra Coleman

speak to that young lady. What, what advice would you give her as she starts to make her way into like the workplace? And based off, maybe off of your experience, i know you had a very interesting, you know, successful career before you pivoted into doing your own thing, but you did meet with some challenges too.

17:14.09

Debra Coleman

But so what advice would you give to somebody who's listening saying, well, gosh, I start my nine to five in August, Jenna, what is a one piece of advice you would give me?

17:14.57

Jenna

yeah

17:23.58

Jenna

Oh, gosh. Okay. So I think there'd be a couple different pieces of advice, actually. Number one, i would i would advise them to focus on building relationships, right?

17:33.58

Debra Coleman

Okay.

17:33.70

Jenna

It's not what you know, it's who you know. So from the moment that you start at this organization, start meeting with people. And there's a lot of pressure to network in the workplace. And I think younger individuals...

17:45.31

Jenna

they shy away from networking because they're like, well, what do I have to bring to the table? you know And so they're like, well, that person would just be meeting with me out of charity. But what I would really advise you to do is to

17:53.81

Debra Coleman

and no

17:57.43

Jenna

Build your network really early and own what you can bring to the table, right? Like even if you go to them and you're like, Hey, I'm new to this organization. Candidly, I'm young in my career, but I'm hungry to support. Like, how could I help you?

18:11.02

Jenna

What team do you work on? What are your goals? I don't exactly know like how I could help you today, but once I get my footing, you know, three to six months down the line, like I want to make sure that I'm supporting your team and working cross-functionally.

18:22.28

Jenna

So start networking, start building your network and, erase the idea that you don't bring anything to the table because you got hired for a reason you have skill sets so even if you don't know how they can impact the person right then and there you might be able to help them down the line things are always changing in business um so that would be my first piece of advice like definitely invest in your network invest in your network start building those relationships and then number two um

18:47.84

Debra Coleman

Thank

18:47.90

Jenna

Think of your career as like a mosaic, right? It's not going to be this linear climb up the corporate ladder that it once was. You are going to have experiences that take you in one direction. You're going experience that add color to your you know resume, your mosaic.

19:03.41

Jenna

That's okay. It doesn't need to make sense right now. It also doesn't need to make sense to anybody other than you. in that moment. Everything is a data point. You're coloring this beautiful mosaic of your entire career.

19:15.98

Jenna

And right now you're just getting started with the first shape or the first color. um And then the third piece of advice I would be ah i would advise is to learn how to communicate your value um and your impact.

19:27.43

Debra Coleman

Thank you.

19:27.73

Jenna

It'll help you with those networking conversations. It'll help you tie your career story together better. um i teach the people I work with ah the impact framework, where you introduce your skill,

19:38.89

Jenna

You then make it relevant to the person that you're talking to, and then you provide the results as to you know what happened when you were utilizing that skill. um So there's ways that you can learn how to communicate your experience, communicate your ideas and ah that will then help further those relationships when you're in your like networking mode, if you will.

20:02.45

Debra Coleman

Wow. I just had this huge smile on my face as you were answering that question because you just hit on so many wonderful things to consider. And I'm actually taking this advice. I'm like an old timer and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

20:13.58

Jenna

day

20:14.25

Debra Coleman

Data points. Okay. A mosaic. I like that. That's how I need to look at it.

20:16.69

Jenna

Yeah.

20:17.54

Debra Coleman

So that is a beautiful like symbolism to use for somebody. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know it was tough to like condense it down into like two or three, but I appreciate you doing that.

20:28.08

Debra Coleman

Fantastic.

20:28.28

Jenna

Of course.

20:28.48

Debra Coleman

Well, If anyone listening is like, I need more Jenna, i need to I need some guidance, where can my listeners find you and learn more about you?

20:36.08

Jenna

Yeah. so you know, careercivility.com, you know, each of those points that I just mentioned, like the impact framework, I have an entire blog post on that where you can learn more. Same thing with networking. Like I have networking templates.

20:48.11

Jenna

That's where I really try to double down when it comes to communication. um i always provide... frameworks or templates or scripts that you can directly copy and paste from, whether it's in your email or in conversations that you're having. And then of course you can massage it to your own communication style.

21:03.57

Debra Coleman

wow

21:03.78

Jenna

So careercivility.com, all those resources are on my blog. I send out a weekly newsletter that ah you can subscribe to as well, where then I'm sending this directly to your inbox on a weekly basis ah or careercivility on Instagram. I'm always sharing quick reels and carousels where you can save and It'll help you with networking, writing emails, ah because again, I want to make this very approachable, but then also tactical. So that way, what you're learning from me today, you can implement into your workday tomorrow.

21:32.66

Debra Coleman

Brilliant. Oh my gosh, I love that. And I can testify to that. Her website is full of resources. If you're a dual screen worker, you need to have a career civility on one screen and then do your business on the other, honestly.

21:41.11

Jenna

Yeah.

21:45.05

Debra Coleman

oh my gosh. Wow. Thank you, Jenna. And one last question for you before I let you hop. um

21:49.25

Jenna

yeah

21:50.23

Debra Coleman

As a busy working professional, a business owner, a mom of a fur baby too. um Hello, Zona. Thank you for letting us borrow your mom. um What do you like to do to help you reset and rebalance when life gets a little crazy?

22:04.60

Jenna

When life gets a little crazy as it always is. I know.

22:07.29

Debra Coleman

I know.

22:08.09

Jenna

Honestly, I just, I'll like get outside, right. And just like take my dog for a walk or I've been trying to focus on my breathing lately. I'm just like taking deep breaths. and That's something I try to teach my kids too. Like when you're upset, when we need to like transition, like let's just take A deep breath in, a deep breath out. So I'd say walks and breathing.

22:27.80

Debra Coleman

Walks and breathing. Sometimes at the end of the day, that's all we can do is just keep moving and breathing.

22:30.46

Jenna

Yeah, exactly. i wish I had a better answer. Like, oh, I go on ah ret retreat.

22:34.35

Debra Coleman

No.

22:35.51

Jenna

i go to the water. No, I don't have time for that.

22:39.77

Debra Coleman

Hey, nobody does. No, I'm kidding. No, that's that's a very real answer that many of us can relate to. So thank you for your honesty.

22:45.33

Jenna

Yeah, that's funny.

22:46.41

Debra Coleman

And I, of course, will have resources and links to all of jenna of Jenna's website and everything she mentioned in this episode in the show notes. So be sure to check those out. Jenna, thank you so much. I just don't think that as a Gen X, i I really want to pay it forward to the generations coming up behind me. And I don't think that we pay them enough attention or give them enough credit as you alluded to. So I appreciate you taking the time to help shed the light on some of the challenges that they face today.

23:10.36

Jenna

Yeah, I think that's exactly it, right? Like just taking a minute to make sure that we're being intentional with how we're leaving the workplace.

23:15.69

Debra Coleman

Yes.

23:16.65

Jenna

I always say, you know, I want to make the workplace better for those who come after me. And so making sure that you're enabling them with the right skill sets or that are going to continue to pave the way for healthy cultures, strong collaboration, and then of course, the sustainability to keep your business productive over the years.

23:33.08

Debra Coleman

brilliant. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Words of wisdom, my friend. Thank you so much, Jenna.

23:38.92

Jenna

Thank you for having me.