Embracing Vulnerability: Rethinking Leadership in Startup Environments with Leadership & Culture Transformation Coach, Katie McLaughlin

Debra Coleman [00:00:10]:
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Have a Seat, Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. I am your host, Deborah Coleman. I am So glad you're here. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode this week. Well, my friend, get ready because this one's a good one. Aren't they all, though? I I don't know. I may be a little biased, but get ready for an episode that is just going to be packed with incredible insights as we welcome the incredible miss Katie McLaughlin to the mic.

Debra Coleman [00:00:40]:
Now if you are in a start up environment, any environment, honestly, but specifically in a start up environment, this episode is for you. Turn it up, get somewhere quiet, and tune in because Katie is not your average leadership coach. She is a powerhouse specializing in leadership and culture transformation, wait for it, specifically tailored for start up environments. With over 15 years in the heart of business strategy, Organizational development and change management, Katie absolutely knows the ropes. She's all about helping start up leaders craft inclusive Cultures, yay, boost emotional intelligence, huge fan, and smash through assumptions and biases. But here's the unique twist, my friend. She does it all through interactive experiential theater Based exercises. Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:01:38]:
Yes. You heard that right. Theater based exercises. It is a fascinating approach and one that I have not heard of yet. So get ready to dive into the world of transformational leadership with miss Katie McLoughlin. Okay. Well, here we go. I am sitting down with the lovely miss Katie McLaughlin.

Debra Coleman [00:01:57]:
Miss Katie, leadership and culture transformation coach. First of all, that title is amazing. I love that you have leadership and culture combined together. That is beautiful. And but thank you for joining me this afternoon.

katie [00:02:09]:
Thanks so much for having me.

Debra Coleman [00:02:12]:
You are more than welcome. You're more than welcome. In this day and age, I think it is so important to talk To experts in your field specifically about culture and transformation because it really seems to be quite the hot topic these days post 2020. So we're going to I really appreciate the fact that you are going to share with us some of your expertise and knowledge in this area.

katie [00:02:32]:
Yeah. You bet.

Debra Coleman [00:02:33]:
Right now. So we'll start at the sort of not really the beginning, but to kick us off, how's that? You have Become a a leadership and culture transformation coach, which I think, again, admire that, and I really love that culture part of your title. So why Typically, that direction of culture transformation, but even more niche, why specifically in the area of startups in in that field of coaching?

katie [00:03:01]:
Yeah. So, most of my most of my career was in start ups, before starting my business. And so That's primarily, you know, the reason why I I focus on startups, in my work. That said, not all of my clients are startups. But I know that based on my experience with start ups, so I was really drawn to those because of all the culture promises. Flexible, you know, flexible day. Like, great work. We're working on something together.

katie [00:03:33]:
Like, we're building this as a, you know, A team. So many start ups talk about being a family, which, you know, I don't know about you, but my family and a lot of families I know aren't exactly super functional all the time. So we really need to stop describing ourselves as that. But right? But, You know, in my work in these companies, and then later as a as a consultant, as part of a consulting firm doing, change management consulting. I really saw how at the root of all of the issues in the business, whether that was people leaving, you know, disgruntled folks, really long meetings that don't have any purpose and, You know, droning on and on and never getting to a, resolution or, you know, especially in the startup world, we have to pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. And, like, oh, all hands on deck. We gotta, like, all work now, and, you know, there's a fire every day. Like and then and then, especially in the start up world, you know, it's like profit, get to revenue, get to profitability, get more customers, reduce churn, you know, all of these really important business things, and it all comes back to culture.

katie [00:04:49]:
And when we talk about culture, like, the startups are, like, checking all the right boxes, especially in a lot more companies, especially since, you know, 2020 and after George George Floyd murder and, you know, Black Lives Matter and all of that really becoming part of our, like, social lexicon now in America. More and more companies are doing those checkbox activities of, you know, having mission statements and having anti racism statements, and and they talk the talk. Maybe they do engagement surveys. Maybe they do, happy hours or company gifts or whatever, But those things aren't the things that cause people to leave companies. People leave companies because their day to day experience is tearing them down. It it you're burnt out. You go home to your family, and you yell at them because you got yelled at today by someone or snapped at or you just didn't get appreciated for all the hard work that you do. And, you know, a little appreciation goes a long way, and that is culture.

katie [00:05:52]:
And that's what I'm in the business of trying to get people to really see that culture doesn't have to be this thing we spend a ton of money on. Culture is the way we treat people every day. That is what gets people to be productive, bring their amazing ideas, Feel like they can be their whole self at work. Like, all these kind of buzz phrases, about culture that are all just and lip service if it's not actually a lived and felt experience in the in the office or a virtual office.

Debra Coleman [00:06:23]:
I love that if it's not an actual lived and felt Experience. I think that that is bull's eye, because I love what you said in the beginning that, you know, you you bought in. You know, you were hopeful or others like you, you know, hopeful entering into that start up culture specifically of the freedom, the flexibility, the forward thinking, the innovativeness, And then only come to find out that in many instances, it doesn't sound like they live up to the hype, you know, for to be honest.

katie [00:06:48]:
Oh, absolutely. Like, some of the most Right. Sick workplaces that I've been a part of were in the start up world, and and many of the most toxic leaders, that I have been led by We're startup founders. We're executive leaders, even leaders in HR, who really should know better. You know? But, you know, the difference between knowing and doing. And that's the other big thing that I'm focused on, especially with leaders, is that we don't realize that our actions aren't matching up to the things that we're that we know or the things that we're talking about. And so we have to start back with ourselves first before we can be worried about well, these people aren't doing their jobs. Cool.

katie [00:07:34]:
But what's your job, and how are you how are you addressing this? How are you treating them? How does it make you feel? And how do you act or not act based off of that feeling.

Debra Coleman [00:07:47]:
How do you act or not act based off that feeling? So is it a is it a matter of We talked about, you know, and I and I I hope you don't mind. I'm kind of 0ing in on the start up culture because I honestly, I don't often get a chance to talk to somebody With your background in there, so I'm just sort of selfishly

katie [00:08:04]:
I love it.

Debra Coleman [00:08:05]:
Is it yeah. Is it a is it a case of We talked a little bit about how us as an IC feel, but is it just that maybe our leaders are just so busy building this startup? Like, they have so much on their plate that Actually, you know, thinking of thinking of the human side of business just sort of takes 2nd fiddle. Is that kind of what's going on here? Kinda, maybe, in the ballpark.

katie [00:08:27]:
It's absolutely a big part of it, right, because those are the things that the entire executive team are talking about every week in their leadership meetings. You know, startups are famous for having, at least a monthly all hands, you know, where the executive,

Debra Coleman [00:08:45]:
you

katie [00:08:45]:
know, the CEO or another executive gets up and talks about the status of the company, and so we're all, like, metrics, metrics, numbers, numbers. And and so that The other I wanna segue back because I've got so many things thoughts swirling in my mind. Yeah. But, you know, I wanna, like, I wanna think about, okay, well, how do companies become how do companies become companies? So when a start up founder starts their company, they're like, I have this great idea. Maybe I wanna change the world, disrupt stuff, whatever. Then I get a team, and by accident, culture happened. And we think that with all of those new people and all of these new layers, if we just keep Saying the same stuff we've always said that people will just get it and do it. But at the at the founder level, Those they have to be the ones who are modeling that culture.

katie [00:09:43]:
And I've worked with too many founders who, really don't see the impact of their actions. They see The they might see the fallout, but not realize that it actually all can trigger back to culture, the experience, and the experience They specifically, founder or really any leader, is creating for their team. Because if you're not intentionally creating culture, Culture is gonna happen with whether you like it or not, and it it may or may not be productive, supportive, helpful.

Debra Coleman [00:10:21]:
That's right. Yes. And by then, in some instances, maybe not all, it's almost a day late and a dollar short Because Yes. So much water under the bridge, so many hurt feelings, reputations. Now, you know, your company is known for being assholes or whatever the case is. You know? And now it's like, oh, so now we're doing a 911 call to Katie McLaughlin saying, hey. Help. How do we turn the ship around?

katie [00:10:46]:
Yes. Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:10:48]:
But oh, so to speak to that, you have a very, like, interesting way of tackling said problem, which I don't wanna, like, spoil anything, but theater based.

katie [00:10:59]:
Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:11:00]:
And I'll leave it at that. So talk to us about your unique approach.

katie [00:11:03]:
Yeah. So, During my career before starting my business, like, I I really saw how my own background in theater helped me to be able to connect with just about anybody, Any level of the company, and be able to really kind of drop into a space of, authenticity, and potentially vulnerability. Vulnerability is a, a challenging word. We could have a whole conversation about that in the workplace. But, you know, I feel like I'm I'm able to access that space because of the work that I have done, in my acting training, in my theater experience, and I brought that into the rest of my work and especially in the workplace because, Ultimately, all of business is about people. It's all about those interactions, whether that's live, you know, 1 on 1, in a group, Or the way that we talk to or speak to others, especially virtually now. Right? Like, so much of our communication has moved now to email, to Slack messages or insert other, virtual situation. And It's so easy for us to misread a message and put our own stuff on it and be like, oh, man.

katie [00:12:18]:
That person just snapped at me. I'm not gonna get them that thing they asked for or, god, my manager hates me. They've canceled on me again. And, you know, so we built this story in our minds of all these things. And like you described before, like, we get to this point where, like, now we don't. We've gone too far. Like, the snowball is too large. We can't push it back.

katie [00:12:42]:
We can't, like, melt it now. And so What I do with my theater exercises, I specialize in, some techniques called image theater where we use our body and our facial expressions to create a larger than life image of something. And most frequently, it's create a larger than life image of How we actually feel beneath the surface, behind all those, like, walls and veneers of professionalism, How we really feel about a particular scenario. So a common one that I give as an example, is to Create an image of how you really feel going into a 1 on 1 with your boss. It's something we can all relate to. Right?

Debra Coleman [00:13:29]:
Yeah. That landed. That landed. That landed.

katie [00:13:33]:
And so, you know, picture in your mind an image of of yourself going into that meeting with your boss. And it's like we say, an image is worth a 1000 words, only we're the ones creating that Live with our bodies, with our facial expressions. And it's what how you really feel, not how you show people you feel. So That is something like maybe you're gonna be putting your like, scrunching your body down and putting your hands up in front of your face, and you're, like, Scowling and maybe also looking down at the ground. Right? Like, that emotional space is so much easier for somebody else to recognize as as what it really is. It's painful. It's there's some shrinking involved. Like, you're probably asking the question, like, what is going on in this relationship that causes someone to feel, I don't know, threatened maybe.

katie [00:14:33]:
You know, we can start to all See possible things, and that becomes a starting point, where we can have discussions of, like, what leads us To feel this way when going into, a 1 on 1 with our leaders. We're not specifically saying, hey. My leader Sucks at this. Right? You know? We're not, like, directly accusing someone either, but now we're able to suss out, okay, what's really going on under the surface that that's the stuff we gotta work on. And, you know, we're not used to talking about our feelings, like, in general. It's and, apparently, Emotions in the workplace is, like, still a weird thing for a lot of people. But and so that's another reason why I love using these techniques because we don't have to, like, be all aware of what, I don't know, what does it mean when we're sad. Like, you know, our actual, like, around emotions is just really lacking.

katie [00:15:33]:
And so take words out of the picture. Like, put our Our lived felt experience through our embodiment into that, and then we do some cool stuff where, like, okay. I have everybody take on that same image, that I just described creating. So let's all step into Katie's image, and we're all in that image, and then we can talk about, gosh. Okay. Did you ever Have you felt that before? Have you whether that's in this situation, in in some other situation? So, like, does that kind of resemble something that you've Felt before, seen before, can you at least recognize kinda what that feeling might be? And then we've got, like, empathy firing. You know, and this is how it happens in a matter of minutes. So it's it's been so cool to to use and engage folks in this way.

katie [00:16:22]:
And, Yeah. So that that's kind of my secret sauce.

Debra Coleman [00:16:26]:
Gosh. And what a secret sauce it is. Man, McDonald's has nothing on you. I'm or whoever it is that has That is I mean, honestly, that's rock star. I love that. I love that because honestly, maybe I'm just again, as we chatted a little bit before I hit record button, kind of a, you know, a geek and all that kind of stuff. I love that kinda but I I mean, I would be the one watching everybody perform on stage from, like, the curtain. I'd be like, oh, look at that.

Debra Coleman [00:16:50]:
So cool. You know? And not ever thinking I on stage and do anything like that. So that's why I'm kinda, like, really admiring. I love the vulnerability that you brought up because vulnerability at work is like, You know, what banished you? How dare you say the that v word at work? And it because it's really scary. And for women in the workplace, especially to to be perceived as in any way vulnerable and not made of armor. You know what I mean? And, like, oh, there's no crying in baseball kinda mentality. You know? Totally. So that's awesome.

katie [00:17:21]:
And, like, vulnerability be has turned into this pejorative in the workplace, Right? Where, yeah, it is this someone's falling apart emotionally at work, whereas vulnerability is being truthful being honest and also usually involves, especially for leaders, admitting when you don't know something.

Debra Coleman [00:17:43]:
Yeah.

katie [00:17:43]:
That's That's also vulnerability, and we all need to get better at that and more proficient at it, I should say.

Debra Coleman [00:17:52]:
Do you think that that is a little bit more of an issue in the start up environment? Because does leadership tend to, always need to come across as they have the answers. They're leading the ship. Trust me. I'm I know where we're going. And for them to do what you just gently suggested, which is to be a little vulnerable, Is that maybe like a that's a scary thing to do?

katie [00:18:14]:
Oh, definitely. It's Okay. I I like, startup leaders are not immune to that. You know, the the other piece that we kind of forget about sometimes are all these power dynamics at play in the workplace that, Like, even if you're like, oh, we have a flat organization, which is a thing that startups say a lot, ultimately, someone still reports to somebody else. They're the person who's responsible for your pay, ensuring you continue to have work, and Responsible for in a large way for your advancement. And and so because of that, like, we all feel A sense of responsibility to protect ourselves in the workplace. And especially as leaders, even though, Like, you could pull up so many articles. There's so many people like myself talking about leadership and how we need to change, and we all know, Again, the knowing versus the doing.

katie [00:19:13]:
We all know that we should not be micromanaging. We all know that we can't be, like harassing someone. We all know insert so many other things. Right? But our Actions aren't following suit. Be and a lot of those actions, our actions are driven by our emotions. We we act based on how we feel. And if we feel afraid as a leader, if we feel, vulnerable maybe from, like, an imposter syndrome perspective or a like, we're afraid financially for our business. You know, any insert any of those kinds of things, then we are going to act from that place.

katie [00:19:59]:
And Mhmm. If anybody has had any remote touch with sales training or experience, some of my favorite kind of sales Training teachers because I've spent a lot of time, doing that work as well, have talked about how, prospects can, like, Smell the, like, fear or desperation coming off of a sales rep. And and and I equate that really to leadership too because people can see right through that even if they don't know why you're biting their head off. We ultimately kind of fundamentally know that it's probably not about us, but most of us are still gonna internalize it as it's about us. Because how else am I supposed to know that it's not about me if I don't know any other input other than you snapped at me?

Debra Coleman [00:20:51]:
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And that and unbeknownst to the to the leaders out there in that environment, your vulnerability or you showing that Actually is empowering to your employee. Like, it it actually, I think, in some instances, makes them have more faith than you because now that trust is building.

katie [00:21:10]:
Yes. Now I want to add a caveat here because this is, like, not to, like, unload emotionally on anybody at work, let alone your employees.

Debra Coleman [00:21:22]:
Right.

katie [00:21:22]:
And, like, I think that's where the, like, disconnect comes in sometimes where it's still important to recognize that there are things that maybe we can't share with the people who we lead. And Mhmm. Either that's because it's our burden to carry. Right? Like, if you're the leader of a company and you're not sure how you're gonna make payroll, then Telling all of your employees that, not a great move. Right? Everybody's out there updating their resumes, Calling, like, and trying to get interviews. Right? Like, that that's not gonna help your business.

Debra Coleman [00:22:03]:
Right. So, you

katie [00:22:05]:
know, you gotta you have to find the right Balance and, and kind of have somebody who's like a safe resource for you, whether that's in your business or outside of your business to be able to be a sounding board and can help you process some of those things so you're not just only using your people to process the stuff you got going on.

Debra Coleman [00:22:27]:
Right. Good good good tip there. Yeah. Exactly. Holding it in, Not good, but letting it all out and spilling the company secrets may be not the best solution either in every scenario.

katie [00:22:38]:
But Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:22:39]:
Finding that confidant yeah. That's great. I good for leaders to hear too because it's okay. Guess what? I don't know if you got the memo, but you're human too. So it's okay to have the other thing I would love to touch on is what you described. And, like, when I said it landed, you know, how show us physically, you know, what it give us a symbolism of of going into 1 on 1 with your With your direct with your leader or your boss, that's powerful stuff. So the fact that that I love that exercise because, again, as you've touched on, Maybe others feel the same way to so so to see Deborah kind of maybe crunch or put her shoulders down or maybe put her head like, express maybe makes them feel like some sort of connection or like, okay. It's not just me, you know, kind of thing.

Debra Coleman [00:23:22]:
Yeah. But then for some who aren't afraid to who are a little bit timid and shy to that to use their voice and to I'm not, obviously. I will use my pie hole anytime I get, but, you know, it's it's just another way communication is a nonverbal maybe it's more of a safety zone. You know?

katie [00:23:39]:
Exactly. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:23:40]:
Okay. And Go ahead.

katie [00:23:41]:
You know, I also like to clarify that, like, This is not a performance. I'm not asking people to, like, get up in front of everybody and, like, be singled out and do a thing. Everybody, whether this is virtually because, yes, I figured out how to do this virtually. Thank you, pandemic. And, or in person, Everyone's responding to the exact same prompt at the exact same time. I do a 3, 2, 1 action, and we all do it at the exact same time. So it's it's not about, Like, being singled out because we're all doing it. We're all together.

katie [00:24:16]:
And we we play. We do games. And, you know, I gave a pretty vulnerable example at first, but, like, We play and we do games and, like, get people just, like, experimenting with moving your body, especially if we think about, like, on Zoom or, you know, in the The training room in the you know, in your office, like, we're just not used to doing anything other than sit at our desks. And so that's the other piece of this is kind of giving people a little bit more Freedom of expression, and connection there as well. And then, you know yeah. And then we're we're building off of these different things with more robust discussion because now we know more.

Debra Coleman [00:24:50]:
Exactly. Robust discussion. I like that. Because how often, also do we get a chance to talk with a coworker and talk and to practice active listening and to be in the moment with them and to talk about something other than the project or other than deadlines or whatever it

katie [00:25:04]:
be. Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:25:06]:
God. That's great. Love that. I love that. Yeah. And to move, as you said, in a remote environment, I am 100% remote myself, So I totally appreciate anything that has movement attached to it. That that's great. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:25:18]:
It's just fun. Yeah. It's good.

katie [00:25:20]:
Totally. It's totally fun.

Debra Coleman [00:25:22]:
I love that. Plus it gets my brain, like, some cylinders that maybe have been lying dormant for the last 30 minutes active again and actually like, hey. Yeah. You wanna get join the human race? Come on. You know? So That's awesome. Love that. Love that. So 2 thing 2 things you touched on real quickly, empathy and emotional intelligence, I think we were we were kind of dipping our toes in.

Debra Coleman [00:25:46]:
And I think you you you've you've said this or you feel this way from what I've read about you that you feel that they are Probably too underused and underdeveloped skills out there. How important is it for leadership teams to Embrace those those 2, you know, theories or that mindset when leading others.

katie [00:26:10]:
Oh, empathy and emotional intelligence are absolutely the 2 most, I'd say undeveloped skills. Okay. Yeah. And Yeah. And I specifically call them skills because skills can be developed. Right? It's not like an innate I mean, yes, some people might have more of an innate empathy. I know I do, but it's something that can be learned. And So the reason why I focus so much on those 2 skills and, you know, it's interesting because everyone out there wants there to be, like, a really robust, like, leadership development plan where we're working on how to give feedback and interviewing skills and, don't know how to analyze data and metrics and present to the board and, you know, insert all these other very specific leadership skills.

katie [00:27:04]:
And all of my work with leaders starts with empathy because and builds off of that. Because once you Know what empathy is. You know how to use that as a skill. Then it makes all of those other skills so much easier to be good at Because empathy is involved in how you give feedback because you have to understand where are you coming from, 1st and foremost, And, also, where might you get triggered in this conversation? Because you know what? It really it it sucks being like, telling somebody that They're not doing well, right, or that they're at risk of losing their jobs. Nobody wants to do that.

Debra Coleman [00:27:46]:
Right.

katie [00:27:47]:
And And then and then also then we we get we get to a place where we can empathize with the person on the other side. And we get beyond the fact that, like, man, they're just not showing up to work, And we focus on them as an individual and assume the best that maybe they I mean, we assume they want to be able to, you know, be productive, not have their job not be at risk. Right? And then, like, then we can have a better conversation about what's really going on. Because as a leader, It's our own jobs to try to clear the way so that way our team can do the great work that we need them to do. And many times, clearing the way is helping them come up with solutions to what's going on. Maybe someone can never show up on time Because they've got a kid drop off or, like Mhmm. Inevitably, they have an issue with traffic that, like, they no matter how early they leave, It's not it's not being resolved. So, like, what if their schedule was pushed back by 30 minutes? Is 30 minutes really gonna make that big of a difference For Mhmm.

katie [00:28:56]:
The work that's getting done? No. Mhmm. Mhmm. 85 8 I don't know. A 1000000 times? You know? No. But, like, there might be a few times yes. Like, I I know a lot of folks who are in, like, call centers and, you know, there's precise scheduling, but you can work with that. But you can't work with someone consistently missing expectations.

katie [00:29:17]:
And so it like, that's where empathy really becomes this, like, I don't know. Amazing kinda, like, Swiss army knife kinda tool where you can apply that anywhere and, you know, also not just at work. Right? Like, in your relationships side of work. So Mhmm. Pretty cool if you're at work developing some skills that you can use with your family, you know, or,

Debra Coleman [00:29:39]:
you

katie [00:29:39]:
know, out there in the community.

Debra Coleman [00:29:41]:
I love that you'd you helped define it as a Swiss army knife and skill. That's so true. Yes. And you're right. Professionally, personally, especially post pandemic, I think that there's just no room for everything is black and white these days. There is so Many shades of gray. There's some people are coming from so many different lived experiences. It's just I I it's yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:30:02]:
That's oh, But I really those are 2 of my favorite words, empathy and emotional intelligence, so I appreciate that you let me kind of, like, pick your brain a little bit about that. Yeah.

katie [00:30:11]:
It's important to get

Debra Coleman [00:30:12]:
the messaging.

katie [00:30:13]:
I love it. Yeah. I actually just, had an article published by Authority Magazine about 5 ways that empathy can impact your leadership. So Wow. Congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. So we can pass that on to your listeners if they wanna a read and go deeper.

Debra Coleman [00:30:29]:
Yes. Absolutely. If you have a link to share with me, I will gladly put that

katie [00:30:33]:
in the show. You bet.

Debra Coleman [00:30:33]:
I would love to do Okay. Awesome. Well, as we've talked about leadership. So to to kind of kinda put a little bow around this Conversation as individual contributors. I, my day job, my JOB, is an executive assistant to a vice president. So I have front row seats to all of this wonderfulness we have been discussing or lack thereof. Mhmm. So what can ICs do or maybe even, you know, executive assistants, people who are kinda, like, right there in the middle of it.

Debra Coleman [00:31:04]:
What can we do to help in this effort? And I I may be looking for 1 or 2 things like actionable takeaway. Like, maybe it is just be as you said, just buffing up those empathy skills and being more conscientious of who we're Dealing with and who our boss is dealing with and maybe helping them, you know, mend those fences a little bit or what can we do to help with this whole culture transformation from that perspective?

katie [00:31:27]:
Yeah. Everyone is responsible for company culture. So Okay. If one one quick tip is that if you Don't know how you contribute to company culture? Then start asking.

Debra Coleman [00:31:41]:
Okay.

katie [00:31:41]:
Wow. So, like, If that means you need to ask your leader, if you feel more comfortable asking a peer, but especially if I think about, you know, your role as an executive assistant or Or whoever. Very few people only do their job and never interact with or touch or talk another human to another human being. And so literally every single person that you interact with is an opportunity to exercise your empathy skills. And if we take that a step further, it also allows you to be more effective at persuasive communication, At negotiating because when you're aware of what are the stakes that are coming into this conversation. So are the stakes really high for your leader, or, you know, someone else in the conversation? Then You need to employ different tools. You need to say different things, engage with them in a different way to potentially help Either lower the stakes for them or help them to understand that you get what the stakes are. You get that this is super important, and How is that then going to affect the way that you approach this work? Mhmm.

katie [00:32:55]:
That's going to help that person Trust you, gain your respect, not feel like they have to micromanage you because nobody likes that.

Debra Coleman [00:33:07]:
Right.

katie [00:33:07]:
And so, like, that's that's just kind of one example of how you can start to apply empathy In a scenario where, say, you're reporting up to, you know, a leader who also needs to be doing this. But that's one way that you could do it.

Debra Coleman [00:33:23]:
That's fantastic. Excellent advice because that's very common problem. Mhmm. So I appreciate your honest answer there. Absolutely. I like I like start asking. That's really good too. Because sometimes just just that alone can really get the conversation started.

katie [00:33:39]:
So Oh, man. If we all just, like, asked At least 1 more question a day at work. Things could be a lot easier. I feel like so many more, but at least 1. Maybe that should be a goal. Ask at least 1 more question today then you feel like you're maybe allowed to or should.

Debra Coleman [00:33:56]:
Oh, I like that. Oh, I like that. Okay. Alright. There you go. You heard it here. Miss Katie, she said it right there. Well, honestly, miss Katie, thank you for the link, by the way.

Debra Coleman [00:34:08]:
I will make sure I drop that into the show notes. I appreciate that that. To your article. I I, time is we are we are at time, but I could honestly just talk for another 30 minutes on this. But where if any of this is really landing as it is with me with listeners, where can they find you to learn more about what you offer in your platform?

katie [00:34:27]:
Yeah. Absolutely. You can follow, me on LinkedIn, Katie McLaughlin. But make sure you check the the links in the show notes because, surprisingly, my name is not that, Not that unique. There's a lot of us out there. And then, mclaughlinmethod.com is also, my website. And I post blog articles there. And, you know, right from there, you can connect with me to either, let's have a chat or feel free to, you know, drop me an email.

Debra Coleman [00:34:58]:
And it is such a beautiful and well done website too.

katie [00:35:01]:
Thank you.

Debra Coleman [00:35:03]:
I'm a huge fan of purple, so it kinda speaks to me, but Beautifully done.

katie [00:35:06]:
I get it. It's my favorite color. So

Debra Coleman [00:35:08]:
Oh, oh, yay. Okay. That explains it. Yep. I got that I solved the mystery. I solved the mystery. Oh, well, 1 more quick bonus question if you have a quick second, miss Katie. Okay.

Debra Coleman [00:35:20]:
Fantastic. So As what has been outlined here quite clearly, you are a busy lady. You've got a lot of people to help and a short amount of time to do it. But, no, you have a very unique approach, and I'm sure it keeps you very busy with your writing and speaking and coaching. When life It's crazy, though, for Katie. What do you do to kind of help you reset and rebalance and bring you back to center?

katie [00:35:46]:
So 1, when I have a little more time, I go for a walk, especially outside. I am super fortunate to live, in the Pacific Northwest, and, you know, we've got mountains and trees and water, all of which are super calming. But if I don't have a lot of time, I'll either put on, like, a 20 or 32nd kind of Meditation, from one of my, you know, meditation apps. Pick your favorite. Or, honestly, just taking a deep breath and Putting my feet on the ground and recognizing that just I just gotta do that now. Can't, like, talk about it without, like, doing it. You know, just even some small action like that can really be enough to start clearing the mind and start getting all those, like, brain chemicals that can be really frenzied, get them to kind of Calm down for just a hot second interrupts that. And that that's also a tip that I'll toss out there.

katie [00:36:49]:
If you're in a stressful situation at work, Take a deep breath. You can do that while you're literally in a meeting with somebody. I just did it while we were doing this podcast. Right? Like, it that is something that can help you reset so you can get back to Center so you can make intentional choices about how you're gonna interact with others.

Debra Coleman [00:37:07]:
Oh, very good advice. Nice. Very good advice because you're right. I that alone can just okay. Just take a beat. There there's something to that. Take a beat. Just wait a minute.

Debra Coleman [00:37:19]:
Good. Well, we selfishly are glad you do those practices to bring us all the good stuff that you do. And thank you for letting us into a little bit about what what you do to help get yourself centered again. It's just in this crazy world right now, oh, That's so important to hear how others are coping and and bringing themselves back. So thank you.

katie [00:37:38]:
Totally. Yeah. Thank you. This has been such a great a great chat. I appreciate it. I look forward to connecting with with all you listeners out there.

Debra Coleman [00:37:47]:
And that wraps up my incredible conversation with miss Katie McLaughlin, transformation and leadership coach. Remember, the magic doesn't end here, my friend. Check out the show notes for a treasure trove of ways to stay connected with Katie and to continue your journey into leadership and culture transformation. I want to say a Huge thank you to Katie, of course, for taking time out of her busy schedule to have a seat with us and to just shed some more light on what it means to Transform our culture that it's still in the workplace. It's still, it's still available to us. That option is always there. It's just how we choose to execute it and go about it. And so absolutely valid and relevant advice.

Debra Coleman [00:38:32]:
So whether you are eager For more insights or have burning questions or just want to soak up the wisdom that Katie shared, please check out the show notes for additional information on how to Connect with Katie. Also, you'll find a link to the article she mentioned as well as a link to the Have A Seat website, of course, where you will find additional conversations just like this. So thank you, my friend, for tuning in this week. As always, stay safe, be well, and remember, keep having those conversations.