The Invisible Workload: How Life Coach, Michelle Gauthier, Guides Women to Find Calm in Chaos

Debra Coleman [00:00:10]:

Season's greetings, and welcome back to another episode of Have a Seat, Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. As my name is Deborah Coleman, I am so excited that you chose to join me again this week for another amazing conversation. My friend, this week, such a treat. Such a treat. We're gonna be talking the language of women across The world. I mean, this is something that really will resonate and hit home with, like, 99.9% of you, honestly. Joining me this week is Michelle Gauthier, a life coach who is not unlike the rest of us. You see, she is a life coach that Specializes in helping overwhelmed busy women create an intentional and calm life.

Debra Coleman [00:00:59]:

Calm being the word we need to focus on there CALM in all caps. You see, Michelle used to be us. She used to be that overwhelmed, busy woman. She is a recovering type a overachiever who got sick of life being crazy busy all the time. She was exhausted From juggling motherhood and a demanding career while also trying to be a good wife, friend, sister, daughter, etcetera. Right? So one one day, while cooking healthy meals and staying in shape and having a lovely home and volunteering at her kid's school and doing all the things, She was folding laundry and listening to a podcast, and the guest was a life coach. As she explained what she did and how she helped people, Michelle immediately thought, I want that job. It just moved her to action.

Debra Coleman [00:01:49]:

So fast forward 4 years later, and here she is living her fully authentic life, helping hundreds of women as a life coach to help us create the calm and intentional life of our dreams. I was so intrigued by Michelle her work. After doing some more research on her, she I learned that she also has a podcast. It's called the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast, and it was in this listening to her podcast that I landed on the subject of our conversation today, which is the title of one of her podcast episodes, The invisible workload of women. The invisible workload of women. This is an invisible workload that many of us carry, and it is real, and we live it every day. And even if you're not quite aware of what it is or if you actually partake in that, keep listening because Michelle lays it all out on the line, explains what it is, why we battle through it, But then she offers some really helpful, actionable, relatable, down to earth advice not To get rid of it altogether because you know what? It never really goes away, so to speak, but Michelle teaches us and talks with us about working within it, about maybe maybe for some of us turning it around and having it work for us and being a part of team us instead of working against us. So it's a beautiful conversation, and I am so excited to bring it to you.

Debra Coleman [00:03:21]:

So without further ado, here's my conversation with life coach, miss Michele Gauthier. Well, welcome once again to another episode of Have a Seat, Conversations with Women in the Workplace podcast. Joining me this week I'm so excited, to have a fellow female podcaster on the other side of the mic joining me this week, miss Michelle Sathir, who is a life coach specializing in helping us beat and battle back those feelings of Overwhelm. I am so excited to have her here and to steal a few minutes of her time. Thank you, miss Michelle, for joining me this week.

michelle g [00:03:58]:

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Debra Coleman [00:04:00]:

Me too. Me too. We were chatting so much before the show. It was like, record is I should be recording from the jump, from the minute we jumped on, which is so much synergy there. I loved it. But so today, Michelle, as I mentioned, is a fellow podcaster, and her podcast, overwhelmed working woman podcast. I can we just get a round of applause for that title, first of all? I mean, come on. That's gotta have a 1000000 downloads, like, weekly.

Debra Coleman [00:04:26]:

I mean, jeez. That I

michelle g [00:04:28]:

feel like a lot of people can really relate to that. I think every woman who works has been overwhelmed at some point.

Debra Coleman [00:04:35]:

Oh, And then some. And the okay. Let me just tell you. I think that overwhelmed has been a part of the Fabric of women's lives since, like, kitty the caveman times. Right? I mean, it was like we've so I really applaud you for actually, like, putting a name to it, Calling attention to it and giving us, you know, your time and attention and your platform and your podcast to explore that and make us not feel like We're alone in the way we think about our feelings of overwhelm. I think so often, maybe unintentionally, those feelings are Sometimes swept under the rug or or cast aside or not given enough, like, weight, and they're very real, I think, for women, especially in this new like, 3 years past 2020. You know? So I applaud you for doing that for us. Thank you.

michelle g [00:05:21]:

Yes. Happy to. That's amazing.

Debra Coleman [00:05:24]:

And it's a great podcast, and, of course, I will have a link to that in the show notes, and we are going to be actually talking about an episode that Michelle did on her podcast, Overwhelmed Working Woman. And the episode title is The Invisible Workload of Women. And, again, that just goes Sort of, unfortunately, hand in hand, I think, with the overwhelmed, feeling and and theme of your podcast, but I Specifically loved that invisible workload of women, and I asked Michelle if she wouldn't mind chatting a little bit about that episode and going, just a little bit deeper into what that means and ways we can maybe combat it and, you know, find find healthy workarounds to it. So, if you're okay with it, Michelle, we'll get to it.

michelle g [00:06:11]:

Sounds great.

Debra Coleman [00:06:12]:

Alrighty. Okay. So Speaking of the invisible workload of women episode you did, applaud you. So well done. I it was too quick. Can I just tell you? All of a sudden, you were like, okay. Thank you. And I'm like, wait.

Debra Coleman [00:06:28]:

Wait. Wait. Wait. I could do it. Wait. How long was that? So well done. When a listener feels that way, you're doing something right. But I really loved it because as I said, you shed light on what you have called the invisible workload of women.

Debra Coleman [00:06:42]:

So I guess my first question is before we got dive into that further, what is invisible workload, and what maybe inspired you to dive into that topic?

michelle g [00:06:53]:

Sure. So The invisible workload is something that a woman does that's not your actual job that you get paid to do, and it's also not the Visible chores you do at home, like emptying the dishwasher. It's all of the thinking and Planning and anticipation and all the things that women have to do just in their mind. Like, for example, my kids each they go to different schools. They have different days off. Sometimes they'll have an early out day. Just to remember those kinds of things, setting up doctor's appointments, knowing when sports practices are, You know, setting up play dates, just all those kinds of things, teacher appreciation day. I mean, when I think about the holidays, there are a 1000000 things.

michelle g [00:07:42]:

And, you know, maybe you do cook dinner, but thinking ahead of time, what will I make? What do I need to prepare? And knowing this kid will eat This and this kid won't eat that, and there's just so much that we're holding in our heads all the time. And so the reason why I think this is really important to talk about is because a lot of times, my clients who are always overwhelmed working women will say, I just don't know why I'm so tired because I'm going to work, and I'm coming home. And that's what every woman does, but I don't know why I'm so tired. And my opinion is that it's this Brain tired, this invisible workload of things that we're constantly trying to anticipate what's coming next, thinking about, and sort of planning in our mind that just Adds that, like, finishing touch to the exhaustion to push it over to overwhelm.

Debra Coleman [00:08:34]:

Finishing touch to the exhaustion. Absolutely.

michelle g [00:08:37]:

Yes. It's like, you know, where the breaking point is, the straw that breaks the camel's back. Sometimes it's that invisible workload of all of of the things that we just have to or do pay attention to.

Debra Coleman [00:08:50]:

Mhmm. Exactly. And I like that you mentioned, you know, the that invisible work you described what it is. Because I think for many, as you were describing it, like the getting the dinner ready or, you know, doing those those little things, it just it's almost like we go on autopilot. Like, that's sort of what's expected. You know? And maybe there's some that really don't tap into the fact that could this be what's causing my fatigue? You know? Yeah.

michelle g [00:09:17]:

Yeah. And I think the 1st step to starting to solve any problem so let's say the problem is I feel overwhelmed or I feel exhausted, is really looking into it and trying to discover and just notice what it could be that's truly causing it. So I think just knowing everyone who's listening, having access to the idea that there is this invisible workload and then Thinking about for your particular life, what that means for you in whatever situation you're in, and just giving yourself credit and acknowledgement For all of those things that you're doing that don't have a place. Like, nobody can see you doing it. Mhmm.

Debra Coleman [00:09:57]:

Nobody can see you doing that. Exactly.

michelle g [00:10:00]:

Yes.

Debra Coleman [00:10:00]:

Also where maybe the sense of loneliness comes in because it's like, well, I'm the only one Doing this around here. You know?

michelle g [00:10:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think a good way to think about it is if I didn't do this, what would happen? And so if it's the invisible workload stuff, it's all the, you know, anticipating ahead of time. I think I gave this example on the episode that you're talking about, but one of my kids takes medication. And it's for ADHD, so you could only get it 1 month at a time. So every month, I remember however many days out that I have to call the doctor's office. And right now, there's a shortage on it. So before I call the doctor, I have to call around to all the pharmacies in my area and see if they have it in stock.

michelle g [00:10:43]:

And if they do, have to really quick call the doctor, hopefully get her to Call it in before that is gone and taken, and then, you know, coordinate a time to go and pick it up and get it here before my son runs out because he absolutely needs it to go to school. And in the example that I was talking about, my son's dad, my ex husband, actually picked up the medication. So if you were just looking at the tasks that you can see, he would be the one who got the medicine and delivered it to our child. But I was doing the if I hadn't anticipated okay. He's only got 5 left, so I'm gonna need to start the doctor and calling the pharmacies and see if I can find it and get it all coordinated and make a 100 calls, and then finally, you know, the the scene task was him picking it up. So it's not that I don't appreciate that. I do. One less thing that I had to do, but all of the weight of the remembering and the anticipating and coordinating and making sure that it worked out was me.

Debra Coleman [00:11:39]:

Yes. And that right there, that was invisible work.

michelle g [00:11:43]:

Yep.

Debra Coleman [00:11:44]:

That was Scribed a real a beautiful example of the mental energy more so that took. Not I mean, it it was coupled, of course, with the physical of calling around and that sort of thing. But

michelle g [00:11:55]:

Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:11:56]:

The mental weight of carrying that and, yes, okay, your ex husband came in, and he did, you know, 20%. But Yeah. It's like you did 80. So how can those somebody who might be listening saying, yes. Oh my gosh. That's it. It's the mental. What Maybe have you discovered maybe in your in your own journey or that you offer to others, are there any maybe practical tips or, like, mental exercises we can do to help us process that better or lighten that weight, that feeling of overwhelm.

Debra Coleman [00:12:26]:

I don't know where I got that word from. But,

michelle g [00:12:28]:

yeah. Yes. Okay. So this is what I would suggest that you do. First of all, just noticing what happens in your family. So, usually, the Invisible workload has a couple steps in it, and the one that women most often do like, this has been studied, and this was among, Married couples male, female, married couples. So it certainly doesn't cover everybody's situation. But in those kind of, like, what we might call traditional, quote, unquote couples that the women did the vast majority of the anticipation.

michelle g [00:13:05]:

So for example, knowing, like, some I'm just thinking right now. Like, on Friday, my son has this special lunch at school where all the families have to bring something in. So I know that he needs to bring in these chocolate chip cookies, and that means I've gotta get the ingredients and then Make those cookies at some point during this week. So, like, that is completely anticipation and planning that I'm doing. And the same is true in the example about the medicine. And I'm sure if you're someone who celebrates Christmas, it's the mom who kind of has all the ideas for the presents and knows when, like, the choir concerts are and all those kinds of things that have to happen. So what if you notice, which is very typical, if you're a woman, that you are the one who is doing all of the anticipation. And then the next step after you anticipate it is to look at all the options.

michelle g [00:13:57]:

Right? So if, for example, I'm I know that he's gotta bring chocolate chip cookies on Friday, I'm like, okay. Let's see. Should I buy them? Should I ask my ex husband to go buy them? Should I make them? Should I get the groceries? Whatever. So deciding that, and then there's the step of actually doing the thing. Right? So making the cookies and delivering them. So I think as women, We often do those earliest steps. We might do all those steps. It's very common, at least in my life, that I do all those steps.

michelle g [00:14:26]:

But I think the ones that aren't seen, the anticipating and the identifying, like, choosing which options are the best ones, Normally fall to women. And so I think as women, we can, first of all, acknowledge that we're doing that and Pat ourselves on the back, give ourselves credit for what we're doing, and think about it. And this is the switch, I think, is thinking about it like I have done half of this task already by anticipating it and coming up with some options and maybe even making the decision on what we're gonna do and feeling good about asking for help On the back end, if you choose to still be the person who's doing the anticipating, you know, to say if you have a partner Or you could ask your kids or whoever else is involved to say, okay. I came up with the idea. I got the stuff to make the cookies. Can someone else make the cookies? Can someone else take the cookies to school? So I think the biggest problem with the invisible workload is we don't give ourselves credit for it, and other people don't see that we're doing it. Just noticing it and bringing it to light seems to make a big difference in relationships.

Debra Coleman [00:15:33]:

I love that. Noticing it and seeing it and bringing it to light. Because so many times, I think we just suffer in silence.

michelle g [00:15:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. And that just creates bitterness, essentially. Because I'm working so hard, And nobody sees it. And I don't care what people say. We all want to be seen and pleased and thanked for, you know, Who we are, like, what we're doing. If we're doing all this hard work behind the scenes, we want somebody to say, you know, you did a really good job at anticipating our kids' needs, Or you do a really good job at work of always noticing something that's you know, in my old corporate career, they used to say being able to see around the corner. That's anticipating, like, to see what might happen next.

michelle g [00:16:18]:

And so I think giving ourselves the credit for being that person and doing that And knowing that we're choosing to do it or not choosing to do it. But if you just do it and you're Dissatisfied, then you become resentful, and that doesn't serve you at all, much less anybody else in your family.

Debra Coleman [00:16:38]:

I really like that the way you described acknowledging. I recognizing that, you know what? I did x, y, and z, and now I punted it over to someone else, and they're gonna and they're gonna finish it off with, you know, the rest. That's a really healthy way to to so because I think many women also have that, you know, that old adage. Well, if you want something done, you gotta do it yourself kind of thing. And It's scary to rely on others. Like, okay. Is he gonna take those cupcakes to school? Are they gonna get ruined? Are they gonna get dropped? Does he know you know? And it's like, never mind. Never mind.

Debra Coleman [00:17:11]:

I'll just do it. I'll just do Even though I know that will add 1 more thing to my morning routine that I don't have time for, and now I run the risk of being late for work, it's We're willing to take that chance in order to see it done because we are too afraid to delegate and let somebody else, h e l p. Help us.

michelle g [00:17:29]:

Yes. Yeah. And I think that's a perfect example because you are always making a choice. So if you're making the choice knowingly and willingly like, I have done exactly what you're talking about to say, I'm gonna take the time to do this thing because I wanna make sure these get there in good shape versus saying, I don't have time to do this today. I'm gonna this task. I'm a cross my fingers. If it doesn't work out, the world's gonna not stop spinning because the cookies were broken or whatever it is. So I think doing that but really owning that you're making a choice.

michelle g [00:18:03]:

You can make either one of those choices. Neither one is wrong. But if one of them consistently makes you feel frustrated, you've gotta stop making that choice.

Debra Coleman [00:18:11]:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

michelle g [00:18:12]:

Or own the fact that you are Making your own life frustrating and creating your own resentment by doing all those things.

Debra Coleman [00:18:20]:

That's right. Creating your own resentment. It's all about choices sometimes. And I know in the moment you know, that's really easy for us to say in the comfort of this podcast. And I know in the moment, sometimes We just don't think that logically. But that's where your coaching services and your perspectives come in. Then you get ahold of Michelle, And she will teach you strategies on how to reframe that type of thinking.

michelle g [00:18:44]:

Yes. Yes. And I would say too, just Be gentle on yourself. So if you have been in the pattern for, you know, 10, 20, however many years where You do everything, and you're bitter about it, and you're frustrated about it. And you wanna change, and you start trying tomorrow after you hear this podcast, And you just go right down the same, you know, road you've been going down and you get frustrated and you do everything for everyone. Just be gentle on yourself. It took a while to make that pattern, so it'll take a little while to unmake that pattern and just notice and say, oh, I see I just did that Same pattern that I've been doing. Next time, I'm gonna try to notice it ahead of time.

michelle g [00:19:25]:

And and it doesn't have to be a big deal, and you don't have to be like, I'm never gonna be able to stop this, or I just can't do this. You can. Just be very gentle to yourself.

Debra Coleman [00:19:36]:

Excellent advice. So smart. Yes. It you're right. We're we're I like to say, I am I am a work in progress. I have construction tape all over. You know? Some days I get it right. Some days I don't, but that's okay, you know, giving our ourselves grace.

Debra Coleman [00:19:50]:

Good reminder.

michelle g [00:19:51]:

Yeah. You can just start again. Every day is the chance to start again.

Debra Coleman [00:19:56]:

That's right.

michelle g [00:19:57]:

You know, one more thing I wanna say on what can help with the invisible workload is just realizing that As a society, we have some unwritten rule that women, particularly, are supposed to be able to do everything. So the way I like to think about it is, Maybe even for my parents, but at least 2 generations ago, there was a very specific role for a woman and a very specific role for a man. And now as women, we have the opportunity like, in my case, I am doing the job of my mom, who was a stay at home mom, and my dad, who was a business owner. So I'm I am combining those 2, and I am so grateful to have the opportunity and the privilege to be able to do something like that. But we haven't backed down. We haven't said, like, I'm gonna try to do half of what my mom did and half of what my dad did. It's like, I'm gonna do a 100% of her job and a 100% of mine. And I think just recognizing that and thinking, that's completely unrealistic.

michelle g [00:20:58]:

If your child was like, I'm gonna go full time to high school, and I'm gonna work full time too. You'd be like, no. There's no way you could do that. Right? So you something has to give. You have to be able to do b minus work somewhere in your life.

Debra Coleman [00:21:13]:

Drop the mic. That's it right there. I think that you honestly, Michelle, I think you just got to the core of it. Why are we putting that 100% pressure on ourselves? Why isn't 5050 good enough? That is that beautiful example. And, you know, that stereotype, you know, it's so we to this day, You know, we are still battling that. It's so systemic. But maybe there's nothing we can do about it, you know, globally or, you know, sociology, So, you know, socially, but maybe that we can do it within our own orbit. So true.

Debra Coleman [00:21:49]:

God. That's pretty much excellent.

michelle g [00:21:51]:

Action that we can take as women is to notice that this is happening because who I don't know who wrote this rule that women have to be able to do everything. And then I don't know if you're familiar with Brene Brown, but her research shows that the pressure on women is to not just do everything, but do it perfectly and make it look easy. So, like, do it all, but don't sweat or anything. You know? Just do it all and make it seem easy. And so I don't know about you, but I was totally following that rule that I didn't even really consciously know existed. And so I think what happens when we do that, and, honestly, research backs this up, is that when we try for that perfection and that effortless ease and we can't accomplish it because literally absolutely no one can do that, then we start to feel shame. Like, oh, something's wrong with me because I'm not able to be my dad and my mom and make it look easy. So When we get into shame, we sort of pull away and tell ourselves something's wrong with us, and we don't we're not in community with other women.

michelle g [00:22:55]:

We're sort of isolating ourselves. So I think what we can do as women is recognize that there's this unwritten rule, decide if you wanna follow it or not, I hope you'll join me in not, And then start talking about it honestly. You know, when you see other women instead of trying to pretend like we're pulling it all off just to be like, oh my gosh. I'm exhausted. I have done 7,000 things today. I'm I'm barely hanging on here and forming true connections by sharing with other women where we really are.

Debra Coleman [00:23:25]:

Yes. Connection and sharing. Thank you. Yes. Give ourselves permission. And if we're on the other side of that conversation, Be supportive and acknowledge maybe our own feelings

michelle g [00:23:37]:

Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:23:37]:

To help build, as you said, build that sense of connection and community. Love it. Yes. As podcasters, we're huge fans of communicating, so absolutely start the conversation because you'd maybe so The other person may be really relieved to know someone else experiences that too.

michelle g [00:23:52]:

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I can't tell you how many times I get a new client, and they're like, I don't even wanna tell you what my life is like. I'm so embarrassed. You've probably never even heard of anybody being such a mess before, and they tell me. And I'm like, mhmm. You and and everyone else.

michelle g [00:24:07]:

And it breaks my heart to think Mhmm. That you think you're the only one. Right. Right. We've gotta talk about this. We've gotta support each other.

Debra Coleman [00:24:15]:

Exactly. Lift that rock up. Let's get out from the shadows. You know, one thing women are stellar at is keeping it inside and keeping quiet about it. And that's that like you, Absolutely breaks my heart. It's unfortunate. I actually I'm dating myself. I blame the Gina Tay commercials where you can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pinch.

Debra Coleman [00:24:35]:

When you ask who do we blame? You know? Yeah.

michelle g [00:24:38]:

That's it. That's it. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:24:41]:

Cannot. You know? I'm sorry. The bacon is burnt. And, you

michelle g [00:24:44]:

know, I I would cracks. Yes. I'm gonna order my bacon on Uber Eats. That's what I I'm gonna manage that.

Debra Coleman [00:24:52]:

Yeah. There you go. There you go. It's still coming home just in a different way.

michelle g [00:24:57]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:24:58]:

But to quickly follow-up on the, on the Point you made about communicating, how important and I sometimes ask this of entrepreneurs, and, again, this is twofold for you as an entrepreneur yourself too. How important is that To have maybe those conversations with those in your inner orbit or those in your family and I know it's maybe going to take on a different tone and different Language when you talk versus, like, talking to a, you know, a woman, a, you know, a friend or a colleague. But is it important if If you're feeling this way and you're recognizing that some changes, it would be nice to make some changes. As you said, make some healthier choices Yes. To to have Maybe like, okay, group meeting, family meeting, you know, because many women are also in a sandwich generation situation where they have Yep. Parents and you know? So what's your Thoughts on getting buy in from everybody as best you can?

michelle g [00:25:49]:

Yeah. I definitely think that's fantastic. I think once you take a little inventory of what You're currently doing, that you can share that with your family and say, here are the places where I need help. I think it's very important to focus on what's in your control and what's out of your control. So what's in your control is the way that you communicate with your family, The way that you ask for help, being very clear about where you're asking for help, and then what's out of your control is How they do that. So if you say, I need somebody to do the dishes after dinner, you cannot go back. You can. You can make that choice.

michelle g [00:26:32]:

But if you make the choice to go back and reload the dishwasher and criticize how the person did it, you're just taking on more workload. So I think asking for help and then allowing for help and I feel like it's just a good rule of thumb to say, If I want it done exactly the way that I want it done, I need to do it. And if I want it done and I'm allowing someone else to do it, it's not gonna be my perfect vision of what I wanted done, but it's finished. And I I can let that be. I can be okay with that.

Debra Coleman [00:27:08]:

I mean, right there. That I think there's gonna be a lot of head shaking going on when that little bit right there is listened to because I think I have seen My friends do that, with their family. Like, okay. Well, if you didn't really want the help or if you wanted them to do it a certain way, why did you even ask in the 1st place? Yeah. No. I'm I'm just email. You know? You're

michelle g [00:27:31]:

telling me. And all it does is, like, teach, for example, our children. Yeah. Like, my children will clean the kitchen. And if I go back out there and redo it, it teaches them that what they do isn't good enough and that I'm gonna do it anyway. So how is that a good lesson, and how does that help me in any way, shape, or form? So I think it's really important to know that if you're doing that, You always have the option to do that. You can continue to do everything and be insistent upon doing everything, but then you're gonna have to keep Doing everything. So if you're miserable from doing everything now, why keep going?

Debra Coleman [00:28:06]:

That's right. Why keep going? And, you know, there might be some enjoyment in having others and just seeing what the hell they do it. Just today, man, you have, like, a magic eight ball. A colleague was sharing with us that she didn't like doing their whole Christmas. This is what we've been up to in 2023 letter, you know, that a lot of lot of families like to do. She's like, so you know what? My son was like, you know what, mom? Let me take a stab at it, and he's, you know, preteen. And she said, okay. Go for it.

Debra Coleman [00:28:29]:

And she let him do it. She read what he wrote. Was it, Of course, not what she would have. No. But it was cute. It was in his own voice, and it was also revealing in how he saw his family and what they did and how they progressed through 2023, And she rolled with it. She's like, I sent it off to Shutterfly and ordered, like, a 100 cars, and away it went

michelle g [00:28:47]:

down. Is I'm like, oh, great. Awesome. That is adorable. Oh my gosh. Yeah. One of one of my clients just texted me and said was like, thanks for teaching me how to let go of some things. We had our family Christmas pictures taken today.

michelle g [00:29:01]:

I didn't have time to get anyone's haircut. Her kids are little. I didn't have time to get anyone's haircut. I got clothes out of their closets that they already owned, and one of my sons wanted to wear Spider Man mask for some of the pictures, and I let them. And she's like, the pictures are the cutest that we have ever had because everyone was happy. It wasn't like this big stressful event, and I thought, that's what it's really all about. I'd so much rather get a card written from the perspective of, like, a 9 year old kid And a picture with Spider Man on it, then, like, the perfectly written or perfectly photographed Family is just so much more authentic and real.

Debra Coleman [00:29:40]:

Agreed and and relatable. Like, oh, her son does that too. Or, yeah, alright. I don't feel so bad. Thought my family photo was a little, weird, but, no, this is great. You know? It's like, yeah.

michelle g [00:29:49]:

Yeah. Exactly. It makes us all feel better.

Debra Coleman [00:29:52]:

Yes. Yes. Oh, good advice. I love that. So definitely try to have those conversations if you can. Or if you don't have, like, a, you know, formal get out the whiteboard, PowerPoint presentation conversation with your family, Just maybe easing up a bit and let let like you like Michelle said, let someone else do the dishes or let someone else if they wanna take a crack at making dinner, let them do that. Know, it's okay. Yeah.

Debra Coleman [00:30:13]:

Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. So and it's twofold because you're allowing yourself room to breathe, and you're allowing their creativity and their sense of wanting to help out in the household come forth. So Yes.

michelle g [00:30:24]:

It's a win win. Mhmm. Last thing I have to say, and then I'll stop talking about this.

Debra Coleman [00:30:28]:

But No. Please. No.

michelle g [00:30:30]:

When you try this at home and you are trying to say, let someone else load the dishwasher, just expect that it's gonna feel uncomfortable, you're probably not gonna love it the 1st time. Don't give up. Don't be like, oh, I hated that. I don't wanna do that again. Just give it, like, a week And just see how you feel after that. Change is always uncomfortable, but it's worth it.

Debra Coleman [00:30:51]:

Right. And we see you, Michelle and I see Do not sneak in at 2 in the morning and rearrange everything. Exactly. That doesn't count.

michelle g [00:30:58]:

We're like the elf on the shelf. We're gonna know.

Debra Coleman [00:31:01]:

Right. Right. Help on the shelf. Exactly. Now okay. Since we just to be fair, we have to flip it. There may be some of those in our family or inner circle who may be a bit, like, hesitant to pitch in, and how so how do we address that, or how do we kinda work through that ourselves?

michelle g [00:31:19]:

I think in that case, you've got 2 options. 1 is you can decide to do the chore yourself. You can decide to just drop that chore. You always have the option not to do something. Anything. I mean, anything. Even, for example this is gonna be painful to imagine, but even, like, taking your kids to school. Right? Like, what are the options? My kids can ride the bus.

michelle g [00:31:42]:

Not all kids can ride the bus. What would happen if they just didn't go to school? It's worth just thinking through. I mean, you're not gonna make a new family plan where the kids just don't go to school, but it's important to know that, like, We are always, always, always making a choice. There's always a choice there. Every choice has repercussions. So decide, a, Do I wanna do this task myself? And if so, take it on knowing that you have. Maybe you don't wanna do it at all anymore, or maybe you hire someone else to do the task.

Debra Coleman [00:32:13]:

Smart. And hiring someone else or delegating out does not equal weakness.

michelle g [00:32:19]:

No. It equals smartness.

Debra Coleman [00:32:22]:

Right. With a capital s. Thank you very much.

michelle g [00:32:25]:

Yes. Exactly.

Debra Coleman [00:32:26]:

Exactly. It's almost work harder. What is it? How's that go? Work smarter, not harder?

michelle g [00:32:30]:

Yes. Yes. Agreed. And I feel like for the number of hours we have in a day and the number of days we have in our life, You're gonna be doing some work, so why not do the things that bring you enjoyment? And if there's a task that you just don't like, for example, I don't enjoy Doing laundry. There are tasks at home I like to do, but I have outsourced my laundry for, like, 2 years now. Every Tuesday, put the dirty laundry on the porch. Every Wednesday, it comes back folded and clean, and we just put it away. It's amazing.

michelle g [00:33:02]:

It is worth the expense to me To be able to do that, I never have to think about it. My kids always have clean clothes. I always have clean clothes. It's just something that I've chosen not to do myself. And it brings me so much joy to see the folded laundry that I didn't have to fold.

Debra Coleman [00:33:18]:

I love that.

michelle g [00:33:19]:

Yep. That is

Debra Coleman [00:33:20]:

I applaud that. That's fantastic. And you know what? When you think about it, for those of us or I don't any longer either. But in the office, like, when you actually go into an office, there are many resources and tools that you do just that. Like, you don't sit there and run a mimeograph and print your own printer's Paper. You have a printer that does that or you have a computer that can think through the and make a chart for you. And so why can't we take some of that and translate it. Why is it so horrifying and pearl clutching when it comes to our own household to dos? Right? So

michelle g [00:33:50]:

Yep. Yep.

Debra Coleman [00:33:50]:

Good perspective. Good perspective. Yeah. Miss Michelle, my goodness. I could talk to you about this forever, girl. My goodness. This is well, that's how relevant it is, and that and I'm sure you I'm preaching to the choir. You are in it, and you are in the thick of it with your clients and the work you do.

Debra Coleman [00:34:07]:

I really feel just collectively, women, we are just taking a big Sigh. There's just a there's so much in the world that for us that it's going on that affects us. Right now, it's almost in many respects. We've taken 2 steps backwards, and we don't feel so much of progress anymore even though a lot of progress has been made. So I think conversations like This with experts like yourself, I just I think it's bringing it kind of back down to the basics. I think we kind of forgot some of that along the way. And that's why I just I love what you're doing, and I so appreciate this time with you. It's amazing.

michelle g [00:34:41]:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I feel really passionate about this topic, so I'm glad I get to share it.

Debra Coleman [00:34:47]:

Absolutely. And I will have links to all things Michelle in the show notes, So definitely check out, how to get in touch with her. And, would you like to, again, remind our listeners about Your podcast.

michelle g [00:35:00]:

Yes. My podcast is called Overwhelmed Working Woman, and it's on all the regular Apple, Spotify, any place you listen to podcasts.

Debra Coleman [00:35:10]:

Yay. Absolutely. Follow it. Subscribe. Whatever it is, you will not be sorry. Trust me. And you can even access it from your website I'm not mistaken

michelle g [00:35:17]:

Yes. That's correct. Yep. If you go to michellegothier.com, there is if you're interested in working with me, there's a page about that. There's a page about my podcast. I have a whole bunch of free resources, like a free morning routine, for example. So if you wanna just go check it out, See what there is. See what could help you.

Debra Coleman [00:35:35]:

Brilliant. I love it. Oh, thank you for bringing this to light, Michelle, and making it okay to talk about. But before I let you hop off the mic, do you have time for our final silly bonus question?

michelle g [00:35:46]:

I do.

Debra Coleman [00:35:48]:

Okay. As soon as I say it, you're gonna be like, oh, she got me. Okay. So on the episode of the invisible work Load of women. You did mention you're, you're a fan, just like me, of and just like that, the Chapter 2 to sex in the city for those of you who may not be familiar with.

michelle g [00:36:07]:

Yes. I forgot you said that we have that in common. I love that show.

Debra Coleman [00:36:10]:

I know. Me too. So well done. So well done. I I was a fan of Sex and the City originally, and I think you were too. I think you mentioned that, like, the original? Okay.

michelle g [00:36:17]:

For both. Every single episode twice.

Debra Coleman [00:36:20]:

Oh, look at you. You're better than me. I love it. Yes. Okay. Well, miss Michelle and I know you've probably had this conversation with your own girlfriend. So which character, ma'am, do you most identify with on and just like that In your working life I don't wanna dip into your personal, but, as a female entrepreneur out there killing it and doing your thing, Who would you say? And if it's a combination of 2, that's totally fair game as well.

michelle g [00:36:47]:

Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. I'd have to say Carrie or Samantha. But I'd say Carrie Because I love how she, lives her life, and then that sort of becomes her work. Like, she writes about her work, and she does work in of a nontraditional way, especially for the time that, you know, it was on. She worked from home in her Coffee shop or wherever when she would do her writing, and I love to write. I love to connect with people through stories.

michelle g [00:37:16]:

So I'd say Carrie. And I also feel like I'm Carrie all around. I love She's my fave.

Debra Coleman [00:37:22]:

I'm definitely getting that Carrie vibe from you. It's when you said that, I thought, yep. That's it. I totally

michelle g [00:37:26]:

That's Funny. Yeah. But I actually cook in my kitchen. I do not store shoes in my oven. I actually cook in my kitchen. But other than that

Debra Coleman [00:37:38]:

So you are a cup full of Kerry with a teaspoon of Charlotte because Charlotte does have that, like,

michelle g [00:37:42]:

mom vibe going on. Exactly. She definitely does. She's way too perfect for me, though.

Debra Coleman [00:37:47]:

Charlotte? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She would make a great client of yours. Like, Charlotte,

michelle g [00:37:53]:

She would. I know. Yeah. Exactly. Which she did when she lost her mind in that 1 episode where she threw her phone in the pitcher of margaritas. I was like, yeah. You lost it.

Debra Coleman [00:38:05]:

That was pretty that was pretty awesome. I I agree with you. But it's like, come on. We all saw the signs before it got there. It's Oh, just like you said, Michelle, she made choices that brought her to that breaking point, though.

michelle g [00:38:16]:

You know? So Yep. She did.

Debra Coleman [00:38:18]:

That's why it's relatable. And, well, that's why we have lovely coaches like yourself, Michelle, who will help us work through some of those feelings of overwhelm and Find find us find find us helping us helping ourselves to right that ship again.

michelle g [00:38:32]:

Yeah. Exactly. Because A lot of times people think, well, I'll have to quit my job or, you know, majorly change my relationship or whatever, but So much of the changes that we can make are just in our own mind and the way that we think about things and see things and then make choices from there. It doesn't have to be Blowing up your whole life. It can just be changing your mindset, and I can help you do that.

Debra Coleman [00:38:57]:

I love that. Perfectly said. Perfectly said. Red bow around it. Excellent. And she can help you do that. And and I love that it does. It sometimes it because of is a matter of mind over matter.

Debra Coleman [00:39:08]:

Not to simplify anything, but that's a step that's a step in the right direction anyway.

michelle g [00:39:12]:

Right? It sounds too simple, but it's Absolutely true. It's like change. I truly believe that we are always creating the results in our life based on the way that we think and feel and act. And those things are all in our control.

Debra Coleman [00:39:25]:

Oh, strong words. Strong words. Strong words from miss Michelle Right there. There it is. I love it. Well, again, I will have links to always to connect with Michelle in the show notes, so please check them out. She is everywhere, Insta, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest, as well as her own platform and podcast. So there's no excuse not to find miss Michelle.

Debra Coleman [00:39:50]:

Thank you so much. This Yeah.

michelle g [00:39:52]:

It was such a pleasure talking to you. You're such a breath of fresh air and so energetic and curious. I love it.

Debra Coleman [00:39:58]:

And that wraps up my conversation with the wonderful Michelle. Friend, wasn't that a lovely conversation? I just I'm telling you so many wonderful takeaways from that, again, and completely relatable. I am sure If you if you listened to the entire episode, there was something, some actionable nugget there that you can take back with you. And if you are like me and intrigued and want to know more, please check out the show notes to find all the ways you can connect with Michelle and Learn more about her coaching platform, the services she offers, but more importantly, to tune in to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast. It is a fantastic, fantastic podcast and definitely something I highly encourage you to add to your existing podcast lineup. She is wonderful, Very conversational, very warm. Again, so relatable. It's almost like you're just talking to a friend.

Debra Coleman [00:40:55]:

Like, you hopped on a call and and Michelle's just giving you the four one one on what's going on. So totally enjoyable con podcast. I highly recommend it. Check out the show notes again for all ways to connect with Michelle. And, also, in the show notes will be a link to the Have a Seat website where you will find more incredible conversations just like this. Once again, I wanna thank Michelle for having made time to sit down with me this week, and thank you, you, my lovely Havasit family, for joining us again this week. And as always, you know what I you know what I say. Stay safe, be well, And remember, keep having those conversations.